NS Dev
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 08:34 PM |
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Argghhhh Vauxhall XE engine trouble!!
Argghhh!
Annoying afternoon!!! Need help, now where do I start!
I have a vauxhall XE engine in my seven, and have fitted 45mm Jenvy SF throttle bodies, Jenvey manifold and a diy stainless exhaust manifold.
I have robbed the map (actually the whole ECU! ) from my grasser which was running, and running very well, on a setup virtually the same. (slightly
different exhaust manifold and 48mm dcoe type bodies instead of 45mm sf ones)
I figured the map from this would run the other engine pretty well.
From the start, it has not idled very well (well not at all below 1300 revs! ) and I put this down to throttle pot zero position and balancing the
throttles up.
I zeroed the pot as well as poss (though it still needs to be on load site 2 for it to idle which is odd) but have yet to confirm that the throttle
balance is perfect.
When I tried an old Crypton "carbalancer" on it the needle shot form one end of the scale to the other violently no matter what I did with
the damper setting on it!
Anyhoo, took it the the garage today to check the brakes on the rollers and check the emissions..........................
bugger!!!!!!!
CO = 1.2%
HC - 4000ppm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what the flipping hell is going on there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I checked the fuel pressure, dropping it loads dropped the HC, but only to 3500 then it would not run at all!!
The chap at the garage commented that the engine was making a LOT of induction noise and that he thought that the cam timing might be out, but it is
on std cams timed to std marks!!
I have no doubt that the mapping will need to be tweaked for the current exhaust and inlet setup, but being from an extremely similar setup it should
be close surely!!!
Anybody got any ideas what could be causing the massive hydrocarbons with minimal CO and total lack of idle, possibly coupled with lots of induction
rattle at its current 1500rpm idle?
For once I am stuck for ideas!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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the_fbi
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 08:49 PM |
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How did you time it up?
As you know the crank pulley can slip on the crank, causing the timing to be out.
Welding rod down the plughole to check what TDC actually is on the crank pulley.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 08:52 PM |
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how about you have an air leak and its running too rich,the air leak giving it "fast idle"?and the leak making it run weak on 1 or more
cyls
as co goes up hc goes down
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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NS Dev
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 09:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by the_fbi
How did you time it up?
As you know the crank pulley can slip on the crank, causing the timing to be out.
Welding rod down the plughole to check what TDC actually is on the crank pulley.
The pulley is keyed so I can't see how that would happen, but basics forst so I will check that the tdc mark is right!
Anybody know
a) whether the mark on an XE crank pulley is at TDC on no 1 pot or if its 10 deg before or something and
b) does anybody have the std XE cam timing numbers?
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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MkIndy7
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 09:25 PM |
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I'm not sure you'll find the standard cam timeing numbers. I've looked everywhere for them and this is the most informative thing
i've found
http://www.sbdev.co.uk/Info_sheets/Camshafts/cam%20timing%20instructions%20-%20with%20pictures.zip
I was looking because mines got vernier pulleys.. but with the standard cams and because the verniers don't have the original cast pointers to
line up with the marks on the cam cover you've no way of telling!.
To know weather your in the right ball park for the timeing this extract " When the cams are set the lobes on no.4 cylinder should be facing
towards the centre of the engine" sempt a quick way of telling.
Also if it used to have 48's and its now got 45's would there not be less air getting in for the same amount of fuel (as the injectors are
still fireing at the same rate)... making it over rich like somebody has suggested and reducing the fuel pressure was kind of a quick fix thus proving
it?.
[Edited on 19/1/07 by MkIndy7]
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the_fbi
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 09:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by NS Dev
The pulley is keyed so I can't see how that would happen, but basics forst so I will check that the tdc mark is right!
Been a few instances of the woodruff failing, shame the pics are missing from this thread.
http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/vauxhall/mechanical-electrical/183808-xe-let-bottom-pulley-pics-evidence-key-needed-56kers-put-kettle.html
If the keys not snapped, the bottom pointer can also move on the rubber bonded section of the pulley. Pulley off job to be 100% sure.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 09:55 PM |
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Have you run a compression test on it? Possibly a hydraulic follower(s) stuck and holding a valve open slightly?
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 19/1/07 at 11:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MkIndy7
Also if it used to have 48's and its now got 45's would there not be less air getting in for the same amount of fuel (as the injectors are
still fireing at the same rate)... making it over rich like somebody has suggested and reducing the fuel pressure was kind of a quick fix thus proving
it?
At full chat maybe but at idle a bigger throttle body is going to make bugger all difference, it's not using anywhere near enough air for there
to be an appreciable difference in the resistance to flow.
I'd lean towards cam timing, timing marks have been known to be out by a fair bit (haven't had any experience of vauxhalls but VAG engines
can be a fair few deg out). Is the spark timing about right as well, I find it fairly east to get muddled wiring up coilpacks 
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 01:39 AM |
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I'll have a peek at all suggestions cheers folks this am wheem lesss beer
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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tks
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 12:43 PM |
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mhh
is the sensor on the toothed wheel
on the same teeth as on the other engine..?
i mean to say that the sensors (VR) should be both on the same position to be able to give it the same setup (result)..
can imagine that it could differ some degrees of spark..timeing etc..
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 01:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by tks
is the sensor on the toothed wheel
on the same teeth as on the other engine..?
The toothed wheel on these engines is part of the crankshaft inside the engine, so they should be identical.
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MikeR
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 04:32 PM |
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Spoke to Nat (NS Dev) earlier, cam timing appears spot on. He's now thinking it could be to do with the throttle pot. Didn't have time to
chat but i'm sure he'll update later.
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stevebubs
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 06:02 PM |
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Won't a leak in the exhaust raise the HC?
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NS Dev
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| posted on 20/1/07 at 08:39 PM |
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Right, some way to being sorted!!!
As usual, never listen to your local garage!!
Cam timing spot on, 2 hrs wasted on that one, but at least i now have something of a triple dial gauge jig!
Results were:
1) alternator not charging despite warning light going off (daihatsu type one, any ideas??) causing low battery after running for a bit causing weak
spark and misses at tickover
2) faulty crank VR sensor, giving strange rpm spikes on cranking and at tickover, again causing overfuelling and timing swinging all over the shop
3) throttle pot not zeroed very well, this is a bit chicken and egg, as there are no idle bleeds on the throttle bodies, you have to guess the amount
of throttle stop needed for tickover, zero the pot to the map at that position and try it, if it doesn't work, each move of the throttle stop
needs the pot moving to keep the pot map correct relative to the fuel and ign maps............i.e. a bit of a pain!!
However it now ticks over, still needs a tad of balancing on the throttles (again much easier with bleeds!!!! )
still seems rich so i think I am going for a rolling road sesh to get it right. The map is close so £150 spent now is prob money well spent!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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mickebo
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| posted on 3/2/07 at 01:53 AM |
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Using standard `box` ?
Looking for Omex maps
M
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NS Dev
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| posted on 3/2/07 at 10:43 AM |
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I'm using MBE, but email this chap, he'll have an omex map for an XE engine:
swmotorsport@blueyonder.co.uk
[Edited on 3/2/07 by NS Dev]
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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