Thought id post in here also, I'm trying to get some of the above CWP sets, for the ford english axle.


It will be a 3.1:1 ratio so good for bike engine installs and a cruising gear in a car installation:


CEC - Revs at 3000 using a 0.87 type 9 5th (there are others) on a 205/60/13 = 75mph

Or a 1.0 6th ala Caterham box as above = 65 mph

BEC - Using the calculator on the locost site in the BEC forum, all at 6000rpm:

ZX9 - 68mph
ZX12 - 78MPH
98 Fireblade - 74mph
CBR1000 - 68mph
R1 - 72 mph
Busa - 77mph

Roughly speaking you have 10mph more for cruising than with the lowest available 3.54 CWP, at the same rpm. Or you could look at approx 1000rpm drop for the same speed i.e. 7000rpm would be the above speeds.

All above bikes will have different model years so may change eg the Busa doesnt show if its a Gen 1 or Gen 2.

If we can get 10 people the sets are around £500.

Ill be posting on other forums as well to see if numbers can be raised, of course more than 10 will be cheaper as well, the costs are in tooling set up.

Please phone for details and i can run through the process.

Regards

Sam

07740 684 186

PS - I can maybe get the VAT off, so we can reduce the costs.






[Edited on 13/12/16 by sam919]

[Edited on 13/12/16 by sam919]

i've just fitted one of the new 3.3 english cwps for a customer.

the casing needed major grinding to fit the bigger pinion head in so if you are planning a run keep an eye on the dimensions!

3.1 might prove a bit long for a BEC. 3.14 Sierra diff only really works for a BUSA or ZX12. My R1 has a 3.21:1 Freelander diff and thats borderline too high getting away.

It depends on tyre choice. 3.1-1 for track use is needed for top end when most diffs have ran out. What tyres are you using on your R1 and is it road use? ADR ran BMW engines with a BMC diff and went down to 2.9 for top end performance. The difference between 3.21 and 3.1 is negligible, it's a couple of mph at the speeds suggested below.

What wheel and tyre choice is the 3.3 with and what use is it for?

This is the lowest you can go with gearing and teeth count, any lower and the set is too big for the casing as suggested.

The 3.14 works well with the current CBR1000 engine, as well as others, as said its top end where it's needed. To be more appealing across the board CEC benefit as well from the gearing especially if currently fitted with 3.54-1. 3.3-1 a good compromise.

From personal experience both busa gen 1 in a fury and 919cc blade units both required longer gearing, the busa ended up with larger wheels and lower profile tyres which in turn affected the handling due to lack of sidewalk movement.

The 3.1-1 offers an alternative and lowest ratio for an English axle before you have to start looking at changing diffs altogether.

I'm runnung a 5vy through Freelander 3.21:1 with 205/60/13" rears. It'll hit 70+ in first and geared to just shy of 150 in top. I've been past 140, though it's creeping up after 135mph and I doubt it'll get to the limiter without a following wind. And yes my speedo is calibrated and does match sat-nav speed. On track I could live without 6th at most circuits but when touring the 3.21 gives a decent cruising RPM so overall a good compromise.
I seem to remember Andy Bates telling me that although the CBR1000 engined Arione hit the limiter with a 3.38/3.36 on really long straights, that the 3.14 was too high on the rest of the circuit and lap times were slower.

Could you confirm all gear ratios for your box, final drive ratio and rev limit. I remember the R1 having a long 6th and 5th being nearer the same ratios as the CBR 5th.

I'm using a CBR 1000 with a 1.138 6th and 1.717 final drive ratio, and its revs out at 120mph with a 3.54.

Could you also confirm the Arion wheel and tyre size?

R1 5vy (04-06) has primary reduction of 1.5 and 1st around 2.5 and 6th 1.27 from memory. Rev limit is 13750

No idea what tyre size Andy is running on the Arione

Longer final drive, and longer 6th which explains your previous figures.

The 3.1-1 maybe not for your requirements but its certainly helps out other bike engine and car engine options with lower gearing then the R1 in the guise you have.

quote:

---

Originally posted by sam919
Longer final drive, and longer 6th which explains your previous figures.

The 3.1-1 maybe not for your requirements but its certainly helps out other bike engine and car engine options with lower gearing then the R1 in the guise you have.

---

Ok that's Interesting.

It's in a Mallock mk27SG.

With regard to cruising speeds you generally don't need as tall a ratio as you might think, based on gear calculators. Torque is the key here. If the ratio is too tall then you end up forever changing up and down between top and the next gear down. Cruising speed in top needs to be right where peak torque is.
For out and out racing you may want a taller diff but again often the time lost around the slower sections where the engine doesn't have the torque may wipe out the small gain at the end of a long straight. If you're visiting different tracks you'll need different diffs anyway.

The dynamicly changing diff ratio!!

I'm sure everyone has there own view on what's what. But this is more to see numbers for a run of CWP sets.

Up to four sets already.

3.1 only works with the busa engine if it's been stroked or you're 20" slicks. Otherwise you're better off it a 3.3.

Sets have been made before and used with the Busa unit, they are running fine with no issues. There was someone on this forum actually after a longer diff ratio, around 2.8/ 2.9. Three sets were made before but the costs were higher than this batch, but... proven track performance.

As mentioned before the busa unit was used in a fury, mistral tuned and it needed longer final gearing, it used a 3.38 freelander diff and ran out of revs.

This is re run of sets for those interested in the 3.1, not really a discussion of personal preferences, the input is valued.

I know of someone who uses a 3.1 diff in an English axle on a Busa powered car. I believe the CWP were made by a firm in Leicester who machine stuff for Quaife

Sam I am interested in a set.
I replied in the BEC forum but thought I bets add my name here.

Hi Ian,

Ok ill add you to the list. The company is based in Scotland.

Regards,

Sam