richard munnis
|
| posted on 21/10/15 at 07:17 AM |
|
|
Roll bar/Cage
Hi Folks
Is the spec changing for rollbar main hoop for 2016 or am I wrong.
Cheers Richard
|
|
|
|
|
JacksAvon
|
| posted on 21/10/15 at 07:54 AM |
|
|
I dont know.
Where are you getting your information from?
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 21/10/15 at 08:46 AM |
|
|
For road going kitcars that compete the MSA are requiring MSA compliant Rollhoops/Cages for 2016
|
|
|
Doctor Derek Doctors
|
| posted on 21/10/15 at 08:48 AM |
|
|
Lots of information here:
http://www.uphillracers.com/showthread.php/rops-road-going-specialist-production-11471.html
But as Jeff says its not that the ROPS build rules are changing its just that kit cars now need to comply to compete in MSA events.
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
ali f27
|
| posted on 21/10/15 at 06:34 PM |
|
|
Well that probably just did it for me i am sick of spending more an more complying with constant rule changes doubles my budget for next no wonder we
cannot get any youngsters into the sport sod em.
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 21/10/15 at 07:17 PM |
|
|
Sign the petition then
Petition
[Edited on 21/10/15 by jeffw]
|
|
|
ali f27
|
| posted on 22/10/15 at 04:48 PM |
|
|
Signed
|
|
|
Shooter63
|
| posted on 22/10/15 at 07:28 PM |
|
|
I've signed even though I don't compete at the moment, I just don't think it's right to bring in such a drastic rule change
with hardly any lead in. I am contemplating having a bash in the up to 2ltr road going class sprints, the new change means that the roll bar will have
to be higher and with back stays which means the soft top won't fit, and I've got to cut the rear bodywork to fit the stays. If the MSA
don't want road going cars to compete, why don't they just ban them.
Shooter
|
|
|
Doctor Derek Doctors
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 08:43 AM |
|
|
There are two side to every story, there are cars (largely kit type) running in the road going classes that would put many single seaters to shame in
terms of power and speed yet they only have flimsy unnaproved roll hoops.
When I saw the Westfield roll at the NSCC event at Curborough and the roll hoop collapsed I could certainly see the need for a change.
Sometimes things are down to personal choice (I wouldnt compete in anything without a proper cage) but I think we have got to a point where the
current speed of Specialist production cars has overtaken the fairly low level roll cage rules and things need to be updated.
A reasonable amount of bile should be aimed at the kit manufacturers here for selling cages as 'competition' that were never homologated.
Certainly from the reading I have done that seems to be the case with Westfield, they have been selling the "RAC" roll bar for competition
use but although it complied to the rules of the time they never bothered to homologate it so now its illegal. If they had homologated it, all
existing cars fitted with it could have carried on competing.
I'm sure I'll get shouted down for this opinion but then again I'm bet people did when they made helmets mandatory.
[Edited on 23/10/15 by Doctor Derek Doctors]
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 08:56 AM |
|
|
There is nothing to stop you running (until 2016) with no roll hoop at all. I should also point out that kitcars regularly run in other classes (Mod
Prod and Sports Libre) with non-compliant rollhoops/cages and have for many years without the Scrutes applying the MSA rules.
You also have no obligation in a road-going class to run full harnesses....I could turn up and use a 3 point inertia belt for instance. We are
talking about a road-going class so there is simply a requirement to be road-legal, the MSA have now put requirements on top of this (ROPS and banning
some road legal tyres).
Don't forget that Elise/VX220 etc also fall into the kitcar class....I doubt that any of those pass MSA ROPS requirements.
[Edited on 23/10/15 by jeffw]
|
|
|
Doctor Derek Doctors
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 09:36 AM |
|
|
Sports Libre (Hill Climb Supersports) cars are already required to comply with section K ROPS so I dont know how people have competed with no roll
cage/hoop in that class.
Anyway I'm just making the case that there are two sides to this story, theres no point arguing with me as I dont make the rules but I can see
why they are being implemented.
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 10:24 AM |
|
|
I'm not suggesting nor did I write that Mod Prod/Sport Libre competed with no ROPS. What I'm saying is that the rules are not enforced
now let alone when the kitcar classes are dragged in.
How can you mandate a ROPS but allow 3 point inertia belts, how is that safer?
|
|
|
yngndrw
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 12:21 PM |
|
|
Speaking of three point belts, as HANS devices are now required from 2016 and HANS devices require a proper harness does this mean that from 2016 all
cars competing in MSA events will require full harnesses ?
|
|
|
Doctor Derek Doctors
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 01:11 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by yngndrw
Speaking of three point belts, as HANS devices are now required from 2016 and HANS devices require a proper harness does this mean that from 2016 all
cars competing in MSA events will require full harnesses ?
I was under the impression that FHR's (frontal head restraints) are only required for single seater cars for 2016 (which all have proper
harnesses anyway).
Ahh found the quote:
It was also decided that from 1 January 2016 an FIA-approved FHR will be mandatory for all Hill Climb and Sprint competitors, except for those in
Period Defined Vehicles, Road-going Series Production Cars and Road-going Specialist Production Cars. Nonetheless, it will be recommended for those
excepted competitors
So not nesecary for road going kit cars.
You can also by FHR's that strap to your body like the Simpson one:
http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/race/hans-devices/simpson-hybrid-sport-head-neck-restraint
[Edited on 23/10/15 by Doctor Derek Doctors]
Designer and Supplier of the T89 Designs - Single Seater Locost. Build you own Single Seater Racecar for ~£5k.
Plans and Drawings available, U2U or e-mail for details.
Available Now: The Sports Racer Add-On pack, Build a full bodied Sports Racer for Trackdays, Sprints and Racing.
www.t89.co.uk
www.racecarwings.co.uk
callan@t89.co.uk
|
NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
|
yngndrw
|
| posted on 23/10/15 at 04:44 PM |
|
|
Ah that clears that up, good to know. Thanks.
|
|
|
Mash
|
| posted on 25/8/16 at 07:55 PM |
|
|
I picked up a Caterham Roll bar cheap on the bay, and it's the same bar as the one I had on my Caterham back in the late 90s. It was approved in
those days (avatar is a pick of me in a Lotus7Club sprint at curborough), but I'm guessing it won't be now?
Any thoughts?
[img]
 
Caterham FIA roll bar
[/img]
Of course, to make matters worse, I'm fitting it to my MK Indy, so I guess even if it is still legal, it won't be once fitted to the Indy?
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 25/8/16 at 08:33 PM |
|
|
It is MSA approved when used with the Petty Strut in a Caterham but I doubt it will be approved in a Indy. Best to ask the MSA technical department.
|
|
|
Mash
|
| posted on 14/1/17 at 08:21 PM |
|
|
There is now a chap on the MK Indy group on facebook, who has the potential to produce custom built hoops cages to MSA approved standards. He is
currently offering 3 choices, rear hoop with diagonal and rear stays, the same with a bolt on front hoop, and the third whihc is rear hoop plus bolt
on front hopp with side protection.
Would the first option be OK for hill climbs/sprints ?
|
|
|
jeffw
|
| posted on 15/1/17 at 07:36 AM |
|
|
Assuming it meets the size/material standards in the 2017 bluebook then yes.
|
|
|
Mash
|
| posted on 15/1/17 at 06:49 PM |
|
|
Thanks Jeff 
|
|
|
CosKev3
|
| posted on 15/1/17 at 06:55 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mash
There is now a chap on the MK Indy group on facebook, who has the potential to produce custom built hoops cages to MSA approved standards. He is
currently offering 3 choices, rear hoop with diagonal and rear stays, the same with a bolt on front hoop, and the third whihc is rear hoop plus bolt
on front hopp with side protection.
Would the first option be OK for hill climbs/sprints ?
Any pics of his work?
Or a non Facebook link?
Will be fitting a full cage on mine next winter so researching different cages to see what I fancy
|
|
|
hazbo65
|
| posted on 17/1/17 at 04:58 PM |
|
|
I have a 1990 Westfield with their RAC roll bar. The MSA requirements for tube diameter is 40mm for pre-1995 cars. I sent the MSA an e mail and have
had a response to confrim that this is the case. As far as I can see if your car is pre-1995 the old style RAC bar will meet the MSA requirements.
|
|
|
lucy
|
| posted on 12/12/17 at 10:41 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by hazbo65
I have a 1990 Westfield with their RAC roll bar. The MSA requirements for tube diameter is 40mm for pre-1995 cars. I sent the MSA an e mail and have
had a response to confrim that this is the case. As far as I can see if your car is pre-1995 the old style RAC bar will meet the MSA requirements.
You say the MSA requirement is 40mm for pre 95 cars. Does that include specialist production cars and where is that in the blue book?
|
|
|
loggyboy
|
| posted on 12/12/17 at 11:27 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by lucy
quote:
Originally posted by hazbo65
I have a 1990 Westfield with their RAC roll bar. The MSA requirements for tube diameter is 40mm for pre-1995 cars. I sent the MSA an e mail and have
had a response to confrim that this is the case. As far as I can see if your car is pre-1995 the old style RAC bar will meet the MSA requirements.
You say the MSA requirement is 40mm for pre 95 cars. Does that include specialist production cars and where is that in the blue book?
Its for cages made before 95, not cars.
Mistral Motorsport
|
|
|
lucy
|
| posted on 13/12/17 at 08:25 AM |
|
|
More specifically, 'For roll cages/bars APPROVED prior to 1.1.95'.
I'm not sure how you would prove that it was approved prior to '95 but it surely would have to be fitted to car pre '95?
Could my friend with a pre lit westfield fit a 40mm roll over bar (made prior to '95) to his car? I presume it would need rear stays as per
post '95 requirements?
|
|
|
