Benzine
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 09:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by A1
what about the fact that youre not really allowed to film public property without a license?
You are allowed
The mental gymnastics a landlord will employ to justify immoral actions is clinically fascinating. Just because something is legal doesn't make
it moral.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 09:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Colnago_Man
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
The moral of the story is if you hit one of these lycra clad, sanctimonious a-holes when they speed through a red light, reverse and make sure the
jobs done properly before disposing of their silly looking hat with a camera.
Hopefully MikeRJ its a member of your family or someone you love, then see if you attitude to another persons live changes.
Anybody who speeds through a red light has got a pretty low opinion of his own life, so why should anyone else worry about it?
But basically if you couldn't see that Mike was exaggerating in order to emphasise a serious point then...
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 09:47 AM |
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As always, there are 2 sides to this story and the 2 will probably never agree.
I have seen plenty of steady, safe and courteous cyclist nearly knocked off because of someone either not seeing them or maybe deliberately moving
over, who knows? But I have equally seen so many cyclist weaving from side-to-side when pedalling furiously with the bike going over to the left and
right making it 3 times as wide. If I was on a bike and heard a car coming up behind me I would at least tray and make it easier for them to overtake
without actually putting myself in danger.
It's similar to the way in which motorcylclists get 'tarred' because of a few idiots' actions. With cyclists it's the
same with a classic example when they take it on themselves to use the car they have just undertaken as a place to rest there hand while they
wait for the lights so they don't have to put their foot down.
The idiot in the video was most definitely a fool by getting himself into that situation in the first place! Yes, the van should not have cut over
like he did but he did, and the sensible thing for the cyclist to do was to back off and at least have a bette chance of living! It was pure
bloody-mindedness that got him knocked off in the first place!!
I have been riding motorcycles for well over 30 years and am 100% sure that the only reason I am still here is because I ride to stay alive, which
quite often means letting some D**K get away with a blatant and dangerous action, but at least the only thing that got hurt was my pride.
I could rant about his all day but the only way things can improve is by some cyclists taking a little more responsibility for their survival, and
that does not mean adding a camera and insurance so at least they have a claim when they do get knocked off.
And breathe................
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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T66
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 10:12 AM |
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Ive been driving quite a while now, and among the various altercations that come with driving , the two most significant ones were with cyclists, not
blokes going to work but the racing bike / lycra attitudes that pervade .
Single track road, group of 8 or 9 coming toward me in a group across the full width, I slowed to a crawl, they didnt slow off at all the group split
and thought they could maintain their speed while slipping down each side of my car. The gap either side was probably 8 maybe 10 inches.
Both mirrors were clattered , and when I beeped , I had a lunatic in through my window screaming at me I should of stopped and threatening to chin me.
While the rest of the hard lads encouraged him.
Kids sitting in the car crying because of lunatic, If I had been out on my own, I suspect I would of turned round and "not seen
them"....as I drove over them.
Car drivers can be wankers, however pound for pound cyclists can be very very aggressive, that video I posted on page 1 is a classic example of
"I have right of way, Im a cyclist" The guy is a prick, who thinks what he is doing is right posting up videos of car drivers cutting him
up.
General driving standards are pretty crap, under taking is now allowed, motorway onslips you dont give way now, your force lane 1 traffic out the
way...If your being overtaken you now have to accelerate. etc etc etc
Bottom line - No traffic police, no enforcement, no point in telling the police if your cut up as everyone does it. HATOs driving on the motorways,
well what can I say - Why do you need a £35000 4x4 to carry two fat bokes and a yard brush ?
Maybe the world would be a better place if , drivers waved and let you out the junctions once in a while, men held doors open for ladies (How sexist),
women didnt wear tracksuits (How sexist) , Politeness is the key to a happy life...
Only way it will get any better, is cyclists ditch head cameras, car drivers respect cyclists, and we all start waving and smiling at each
other....
Simples
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JAG
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 11:30 AM |
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T66 - Amen to that 
SOME cyclists are W@nkers - no doubt
SOME car drivers are W@nkers - no doubt
However it's the cyclists that will get killed in most situations hence they tend to be a bit more angry when these incidents occur.
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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matt_gsxr
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 11:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JAG
SOME cyclists are W@nkers - no doubt
SOME car drivers are W@nkers - no doubt
However it's the cyclists that will get killed in most situations hence they tend to be a bit more angry when these incidents occur.
Most cyclist accept that they will get cut-up a bit, but near death does bring out the worst in me too. Drivers using their vehicle as a weapon
should be prosecuted as such.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 12:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by matt_gsxr
Drivers using their vehicle as a weapon should be prosecuted as such.
Absolutely, I couldn't agree more
All we need now is an even handed approach, and to see some cyclists in court too.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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T66
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 12:26 PM |
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I take your point.
A cyclist will always come of worst when mixed up with a car, I once ended up having a Subaru Outback not see me, I rode at a good pace straight into
the back window.....lol Bent bike,bent face, & whiplash.
Being on a bike is no different to motorbikes, its not generally you who is going to cause your death or injury, you therefore have to assume everyone
is out to kill you.
Driving safely at speed (or riding) is a system, whether your in a car or riding a bike - if you step outside that system (if you have one) and start
undertaking, not giving way, shoddy overtaking, picking your nose, using your mobile, you raise the chances of ending up in a paramedics bucket.
Cyclists/Riders have even more to be concerned with, they are better of reading "Roadcraft" than bothering with cameras able to record
them going in the paramedics bucket...
Keep waving & smiling , its the key to life...
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Peteff
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 12:48 PM |
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44 years ago I was fined for not having lights on my bike after dusk, I was a teenager and the £4 was a lot in those days. You could also be
prosecuted for riding on the pavement or going the wrong way down a one way street. Nowadays no-one polices anything like this so it is rife where we
live. I ride a cycle and a motorcycle and I do watch other road users for my own safety as a matter of course but there's always someone who
will think of a new way to catch you unawares. Everyone should try riding as well as driving just to see how the other half survives.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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T66
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 01:03 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
44 years ago I was fined for not having lights on my bike after dusk, I was a teenager and the £4 was a lot in those days. You could also be
prosecuted for riding on the pavement or going the wrong way down a one way street. Nowadays no-one polices anything like this so it is rife where we
live. I ride a cycle and a motorcycle and I do watch other road users for my own safety as a matter of course but there's always someone who
will think of a new way to catch you unawares. Everyone should try riding as well as driving just to see how the other half survives.
Thats my point,
There has been a gradual watering down of whats now seen as acceptable...
Poor driving is debated here every other day, we all accept it now as the norm. Why do white vans get a bad name, your as likely to get driven into
by anyone else out there.
I have been on the end of a traffic cops "advice" session when stopped age 17... I havent forgotten what he said, and now dont drive with
my fog lights on when I dont need them. And how often do you see that nowadays??
The minor stuff has been sidelined, subsequently the benchmark of poor driving gets ever higher.
This watering down applies to a lot more than cycling & driving.
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mad4x4
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 01:59 PM |
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Sorry but I think in Cities most of these "proffessional" cylcists you see on your daily commute should be shot at BIRTH. In Aberdeen
there is more than one that cycles well in the middle on the road causing two lanes of traffic to squeeze together making for idiots forcing into
queues and braking hard.
I think that by minimum they should have :
1) Insurance
2) Pay Road tax - THEY USE THE ROAD
3) Display a Vehicle Registration - so we can identify them if they cause traffic incident or lash out at CARS.
Then there is the bit where it is ok for a cyclist to bump onto the pavment then bump off again to miss ligths or cross the road with the green man.
If I did that in a CAR or on a MOTORBIKE i;d be strung up
[Edited on 2/202/11 by mad4x4]
Scot's do it better in Kilts.
MK INDY's Don't Self Centre Regardless of MK Setting !
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Moorron
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 02:54 PM |
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i can see why both car drivers and cyclists are annoyed by this. Too many idiots on both if you ask me.
The problem i have witnessed myself is most people dont see the cyclists, after buying myself by first mountain bike in 15 years and riding it most
weekends i have nearly been killed by atleast 3 cars. What gets my goat is on every incident they looked right at me, eye contact between us yet they
still pull out infront of you meaning i have to swerve to avoid them, then they just carry on without a sorry or wave.
Ive always been a polite driver, giving room to anyone who needs it including large lorries on corners and the such where they overhang the road, but
must admit to not seeing motorbikes on islands a few time in my life but have managed to stop about 1 foot out of a junction, then waving sorry to
them as they shake their heads.
But it seems that many people just dont care for anyone else but themselves, regardless of the cost (as in lives) to others, not only on the highway
but anywhere else in public. The amount of times i have avoided a smack both in my cars or on bike due to other peoples idiotic attitude must have
saved the insurance companies about £50K+, yet my insurance is still silly high so why should i be different and just 'go with the flow'.
Both cyclists and cars are missused and until those missusing them get punished its only going to get worse, the filming of it only helps show what
the police have been missing for years but nothing will happen, no laws changed and we will continue to spiral downwards until it does.
Dog eat Dog world.
Sorry about my spelling, im an engineer and only work in numbers.
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bob
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 03:02 PM |
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I've posted a link to these cameras or types of them before, a search on ebay brings up MD80 mini cam.
My brother has one and its quiet impressive with a fast mini SD card.
MINI CAM LINK
7 day shop sell these without a micro SD for £10.99 with free delivery so worth a punt.
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interestedparty
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 03:07 PM |
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I think as cameras on bicycles AND cars and lorries etc get more common then there probably will be an improvement in driving standards, and a
reduction of road rage incidents, which would be a good thing.
On the subject of why some drivers don't see cyclists, or motorbikes- that a very interesting question. I think we can rule out stupidity,
probably sheer carelessness too, although people affected by such behaviour will swear it is a combination of both. My guess is the problem is to do
with the way people perceive things, and the way their sub conscious minds will block out things that it thinks doesn't concern the active part
of the brain. It's a way of coping with the information overload that would happen if there wasn't some kind of filter operating.
So drivers tend to look for specific things, and at a junction it will be other cars and larger vehicles. Yes, of course they should see and
react to smaller stuff such as bikes, but sometimes they don't. How to prevent this? Good question. Workable answers on a postcard to the
government.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Simon
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 05:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
I was reading about a case a while back where there was a queue of traffic heading into a city. So one of the cars in the queue lets someone who was
coming the other way turn to the right (across the queue of traffic) and into a side street. So chummy has nearly completed his turn when a cyclist
comes shooting up the inside of the cars in the queue and rides full pelt into the turning car, and hits him near the back end.
The cyclist is going that fast that he ends up going over the roof of the turning car, and the bike is of course written off. So it's pretty
obvious that the cyclist had his head down, pumping away, glancing at the watch on his wrist, thinking he was going to get a good time today, maybe
even shave a couple of seconds off his best, thinking what mugs all the fatties in the cars were for waiting in a queue, then bang!
But that's not the funny part, accidents aren't usually funny. The funny part is that the cyclist reckoned it was the car driver's
fault! 
If you invite someone across or out of a junction YOU are responsible for what happens if somone drives or rides into that vehicle even if that
vehicle was driving too fast, so NEVER EVER invite someone out, cos you'll be done for it!
When I was a m/c instructor one off our pupils (who was filtering perfectly safely) had someone pull out infront them from a private driveway. Both
them and the person who invited them out got done! If you ain't a traffic cop, you ain't allowed to direct traffic.
quote:
Originally posted by mad4x4
In Aberdeen there is more than one that cycles well in the middle on the road causing two lanes of traffic to squeeze [Edited on 2/202/11 by mad4x4]
This is a perfectly reasonable defensive driving technique - we used to teach moped riders to do the same otherwise twat drivers would squeeze past in
a gap that wasn't there, pushing you into the gutter. And according to an interview I heard with a chap from the IAM who are taking an active
interest in cycling are also recommending the course.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 2/2/11 by Simon]
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zilspeed
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 05:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
I was reading about a case a while back where there was a queue of traffic heading into a city. So one of the cars in the queue lets someone who was
coming the other way turn to the right (across the queue of traffic) and into a side street. So chummy has nearly completed his turn when a cyclist
comes shooting up the inside of the cars in the queue and rides full pelt into the turning car, and hits him near the back end.
The cyclist is going that fast that he ends up going over the roof of the turning car, and the bike is of course written off. So it's pretty
obvious that the cyclist had his head down, pumping away, glancing at the watch on his wrist, thinking he was going to get a good time today, maybe
even shave a couple of seconds off his best, thinking what mugs all the fatties in the cars were for waiting in a queue, then bang!
But that's not the funny part, accidents aren't usually funny. The funny part is that the cyclist reckoned it was the car driver's
fault!
If you invite someone across or out of a junction YOU are responsible for what happens if somone drives or rides into that vehicle even if that
vehicle was driving too fast, so NEVER EVER invite someone out, cos you'll be done for it!
When I was a m/c instructor one off our pupils (who was filtering perfectly safely) had someone pull out infront them from a private driveway. Both
them and the person who invited them out got done! If you ain't a traffic cop, you ain't allowed to direct traffic.
ATB
Simon
Couldn't agree more.
Often, I have passengers in the car who question why I don't 'flash' someone to let them in / out / through.
It's hard work explaining that by refusing to participate in this misguided nonsense, I'm ensuring that the decision on whether or not to
make the manouvre rests with the other driver. As it should. They should make their own decisions.
I'm capable of going about my business without anyone else's help.
So should everyone else be.
I once offered to guide a friend who was reversing his very long van and transporter into his drive on a busy road.
He quite rightly refused my help and instructed me to stand aside and take nothing to do with it.
The success of the manovure was his responsibility.
As it should be.
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RazMan
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 06:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
I'm capable of going about my business without anyone else's help.
So should everyone else be.
I once offered to guide a friend who was reversing his very long van and transporter into his drive on a busy road.
He quite rightly refused my help and instructed me to stand aside and take nothing to do with it.
The success of the manovure was his responsibility.
As it should be.
Sorry but that is just plain daft! Whatever happened to common courtesy? Obviously, what the driver chooses to do is his own responsibility and quite
rightly so. If he chooses to accept some help when reversing then that is surely just making the reversing a little less dangerous - if you
can't see what's behind you then a second pair of eyes (if available) is the sensible option. I often give lorries (and cyclists btw) a
little more room / time when negotiating sharp bends or other hazards and I simply flash my lights to let them know I have seen them and THEY make the
decision to move - not me.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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T66
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 07:11 PM |
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The flashing of headlights is a big no no , it implies the road is safe/clear when in fact it may not be.
Let others make their driving decisions.
Only time flashing headlights get used, is to warn others of speed cameras lol and when someone oncoming is about to head on you.....
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interestedparty
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 09:09 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
I was reading about a case a while back where there was a queue of traffic heading into a city. So one of the cars in the queue lets someone who was
coming the other way turn to the right (across the queue of traffic) and into a side street. So chummy has nearly completed his turn when a cyclist
comes shooting up the inside of the cars in the queue and rides full pelt into the turning car, and hits him near the back end.
The cyclist is going that fast that he ends up going over the roof of the turning car, and the bike is of course written off. So it's pretty
obvious that the cyclist had his head down, pumping away, glancing at the watch on his wrist, thinking he was going to get a good time today, maybe
even shave a couple of seconds off his best, thinking what mugs all the fatties in the cars were for waiting in a queue, then bang!
But that's not the funny part, accidents aren't usually funny. The funny part is that the cyclist reckoned it was the car driver's
fault!
If you invite someone across or out of a junction YOU are responsible for what happens if somone drives or rides into that vehicle even if that
vehicle was driving too fast, so NEVER EVER invite someone out, cos you'll be done for it!
I didn't say anybody invited anybody to do anything. Just thought I would make that extra clear. So, tell me, whose fault do you think
the accident I described was?
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Simon
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| posted on 2/2/11 at 09:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
So one of the cars in the queue lets someone who was coming the other way turn to the right
So, tell me, whose fault do you think the accident I described was?
Harsh as it may seem but even leaving a gap is technically an invitation. Not leaving a gap maybe construed as arrogant and bloody minded.
Fault was both the person who left the gap and who was crossing the road.
ATB
Simon
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interestedparty
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| posted on 3/2/11 at 06:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Simon
quote:
Originally posted by interestedparty
So one of the cars in the queue lets someone who was coming the other way turn to the right
So, tell me, whose fault do you think the accident I described was?
Harsh as it may seem but even leaving a gap is technically an invitation. Not leaving a gap maybe construed as arrogant and bloody minded.
Fault was both the person who left the gap and who was crossing the road.
ATB
Simon
So the cyclist who was hammering up the inside of a row of stopped cars with his head down, and who consequently struck the turning car near its rear
was in the clear? You cannot be serious.
At, say, 20 mph, how far back would the cyclist need to be at the time when the turning car started its manouvre? 4 car lengths? 6? How the f*ck would
the driver of the turning car be expected to see him? As far as I am concerned, in the scenario I described, there was only ONE person at fault and
that was the cyclist, and that the cycling was sufficiently careless to warrant a prosecution.
As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list-- I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed-- who never would be missed!
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Simon
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| posted on 4/2/11 at 10:08 PM |
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Then I suggest you read up on the highway code, do some advanced driving courses, maybe become an instructor of sorts the you won't end up in
deep shit.
The cyclist has a right of way, and that is what counts, irrespective of whether he's got his eyes shut or travelling at 100 mph. The car
blocked that right of way. End of.
The driver of the turning car should ensure that his manoeuvre will be safe considering a) where he is going, what's happening from b) both left
and right and c) from the rear. If he is relying on a third party "the invitor", he has failed to do relevant checks and relied on someone
else whoi may have assumed he has done them.
You need to get out on a bike and see what tossers drivers can be. I ride bike, ex motorcyclist (IAM Advanced, RoSPA Advanced and Instructor for about
12 years) and drive cars so believe I have a fairly balanced view.
ATB
Simon
[Edited on 4/2/11 by Simon]
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roadrunner
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| posted on 4/2/11 at 10:53 PM |
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I am a
very big petrol head and I also cycle 15 miles a day to work, partly due to the Humber Bridge toll being £2.70 each way.
Now I where high visibility clothing have two back lights and two high powered front lights and still people don't see me. I have close shaves
nearly every day and I have been run over twice, last being a Picasso cutting a t junction with me turning right and ending up going through the
windscreen.
For every cyclist that jumps a red light I bet there are double if not more car drivers who do the same. Motor bikes travelling up the inside of cuing
traffic, For every arsole bike rider there is ten times more arsole drivers.
Some cars don't even pay road tax ,why should I when I have two cars at home with tax on the screen. I have a petrol turbo which I pay more tax
for just because it uses more fuel than a 1LTR Polo, but do I get a reduction for not using it.
People cannot moan about one or the other unless they experience it for themselves.
I ride my bike as best as I can ,stopping when I have too and giving way as I should, yes I might ride a little fast for most people, I managed to get
a free slipstream from a moped using the cycle lane this week clocking 33 mph in the process,
but I will loose my cool when cars cut me up, try to overtake when there's obviously not enough room, pull out in front of
me the same way a driver shouts at another driver. And I will kick the living poo out of the next person that knocks me off
my bike , even if I end up in trouble, they need to feel the pain too.
I drive fast most of the time , but I will also be courteous to a fellow cyclist while I am behind the wheel.
On the matter of the camera, I was looking at getting one for when I drive the Indy.
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roadrunner
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| posted on 4/2/11 at 10:59 PM |
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Just another thought for all you non cyclists. If a cyclist is travelling the wrong way down a road onto on coming traffic, what is the correct
procedure as a driver you should take. Think about it, the cyclist will always have the right of way in any circumstance, the driver in his killing
machine will have non.
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owelly
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| posted on 4/2/11 at 11:24 PM |
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I may as well chip in with my tuppence worth....
For a kick off, don't quote the highway code as law. It isn't. Ignoring the advise in the highway code may also be comitting an offence
under the Road Traffic Act but not always. The quote about overtaking is a very good example. If you are travelling at 30mph in a 30mph limit, the
highway code 'advises' you to slow down to let someone who is attempting an overtake, to do so safely. There is nothing in the Road
Traffic Act that states such. However, if you were travelling at 20mph and then you sped up to 30mph when someone was trying to overtake, then you are
committing an offence, possibly more than one offence.
Secondly, having spent most of my youth on motorbikes, I learnt to ride as if every other road user was out to kill me. OK, so perhaps I do have the
right of way, my light has gone green, etc. Great. I'll think about that as I'm getting some grumpy, hairy, male nurse, wiping my arse and
bringing me cups of tepid weak tea. Right is right but sometimes it's better to concede, use your noggin, let the BMW X5 jump his red light and
stay safe.
If cyclists would just accept the inevitable, that other road users don't see them or can't be bothered to give them room or whatever,
then it's up to them to drive accordingly. Those camera clips are a very good example. It's pretty obvious most of the time what is going
to happen so instead of getting all high and mighty, just roll with it (not literally) and get home safe. After all, as we have all agreed, in a
collision between a tin box and a soft fleshy organic person, the person will come off worse.
As for taxing cycles? I tax my motorbikes. I taxed my moped. What's the difference? Pedally bikes use the roads. Admittedly they should get a
rebate because they don't seem to use the traffic lights and other road signs but they make up for that by using the pavements.
This is what we need. NSFW!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljPFZrRD3J8
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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