a4gom
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:06 PM |
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Removing Oil, sucking it out, whats best.
I'm led to believe many garages do not remove the sump plug to drain the oil but suck it out from above.
I'm interested in this for two reasons
1, I have been considering this method for a while as I'm fed up of lying on the ground outside the house struggling to get the plug out on our
tin tops and getting covered in oil!
2, I took the plug out on my newest venture only to find the plug was actually loose! the thread in the sump has stripped! After a bit of
investigation I found there was actally still a bit more thread in there so I've made a new plug from a longer bolt. Its nipped up this time but
there wasn't a lot of thread left and I don't want to count my chickens.
Looking advice on the following: advantages / disadvantages, best tool to use / where to get it from?
Locost would be good  oh I have access to a compressor if it makes any difference.
TIA
Andy
Perfect planning prevents pi$$ poor performance!
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MikeR
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:10 PM |
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i've got a silverline oil extractor - got a small one to get gearbox oil out. Haven't tried it yet but it wasn't that expensive.
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mookaloid
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:10 PM |
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have a look in machine mart for oil extractor 
"That thing you're thinking - it wont be that."
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smart51
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:18 PM |
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I have an oil syringe thing. Holds about 0.5l at a time. I used it for putting diff and gearbox oil in the cappuccino from underneath the car. Can
also be used to remove oil.
The smart ForTwo doesn't have a sump drain plug at all. The only way in is through the dipstick hole. Smart dealers pump the oil out through
that and fill it the same way.
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adithorp
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:18 PM |
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There are vacuum extractors and we've got one and it works (or did till the pipe split) but find it too slow unless we have no alternative. The
dealers do it but then in many cases thats all they do on a service.
Is the stripped plug in a VW ally' sump? They seem to be the worst for that. We helicoil them and don't have any problems after.
adrian
[Edited on 12/3/10 by adithorp]
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:20 PM |
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I'd rather drain it out the bottom - the plugs obviously normally at the lowest point so all the crap should come out with the oil
if suck it out the top who knows what your leaving in the bottom 
(especialy the ones that just attach to the dipstick tube)
lots of garages just do whatever is quickest - not best for the engine....
I know one place that used to stab a hole in the oil filter with a screwdriver then run the car till no more oil came out 
[Edited on 12/3/10 by mcerd1]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:20 PM |
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I have been using a Seago Vacuum oil extractor for a while on the tintop it sucks the 5w/30 out the sump in about 5 minutes and drains it very near
as well as the drain plug.
It is so easy and mess free I now change the oil every 5,000 miles instead of the recommended 15,000, although I tend only to change filter every
second change.
Identical units are sold under many different brands.
It is best to buy from yacht chandlers as they are much cheaper than the identical items sold under brands like Sealey.
I have a smaller "Silverline" brand 2litre one that I use for other fluids but the quality isn't as good quality..
Chandlers also sell 12v electric extractor pumps which are probably easier to use,
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
I'd rather drain it out the bottom - the plugs obviously normally at the lowest point so all the crap should come out with the oil
if suck it out the top who knows what your leaving in the bottom
(especialy the ones that just attach to the dipstick tube)
lots of garages just do whatever is quickest - not best for the engine....
I know one place that used to stab a hole in the oil filter with a screwdriver then run the car till no more oil came out
Really dosen't leave anything in the sump --- I changed the sump on my son-in-laws R45 the vacumm extractor left nothing inside even though the
oil was manky 20w/50 mineral, it probably sucked the oil to a slightly lower than could have be gotten out through the drain plug,
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:28 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Really dosen't leave anything in the sump --- I changed the sump on my son-in-laws R45 the vacumm extractor left nothing inside even though the
oil was manky 20w/50 mineral, it probably sucked the oil to a slightly lower than could have be gotten out through the drain plug,
fair enough, but I'll still drain it out the bottom
I change it every 5k, but then I've got access to a 4 post ramp to make it easy (especialy getting to the filter up the back of the engine 
)
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:33 PM |
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http://www.force4.co.uk/859/Force-4-Oil-Extractor-Pump.html
http://www.force4.co.uk/7760/Seago-Oil-Extractor.html
http://www.force4.co.uk/1947/Force-4-Oil-Changer-12V.html
http://www.mptools.co.uk/products.asp?partno=104616 £16.02 Incl. VAT !
[Edited on 12/3/10 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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a4gom
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:37 PM |
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Thanks guys, Adrian, the sumps on a 406 diesel pug, there looks like there is plenty of material to be able to do a repair but like I said I have been
thinking of doing it this way for a while so will probably try it out.
Andy
Perfect planning prevents pi$$ poor performance!
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ReMan
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 12:59 PM |
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"I know one place that used to stab a hole in the oil filter with a screwdriver then run the car till no more oil came out " 
I think that there was a move by local authorities to enforce/ensure that garage trade bought the kit, and used the suck out method for
"environmental reasons"
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bassett
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 01:00 PM |
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For me its always warm then just remove the sump bolt. There is loads of crap stuck to the sump so I sometimes remove this aswell and give it a good
clean and also a good time to check the pick up mesh (just have a gasket ready) and when refitting where possible i use a magnetic sump plug which
catches a suprising amount of metal.
[Edited on 12/3/10 by bassett]
My MNR Blog Updated Jan 2010 - Track Day Prep Begins!
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Tatey
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 01:13 PM |
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Well I've just purchased one of these, as I wasn't looking forward to doing my first ever oil change, due to the risk of getting oil
everywhere, this should make the job easy to do.
Cheers
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02GF74
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 01:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by mcerd1
I'd rather drain it out the bottom - the plugs obviously normally at the lowest point so all the crap should come out with the oil
hmmm, you are probbly thinking of old skool engines, cross flow, pinto, rover v8, zetec maybe .... it wouldn't surprise me that modern engines
run so clean and are built to much tighter tolerances that there will be a lot less solids and crud.
there are even gearbox now that are sealed for life so no way to top up oil on them.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 01:45 PM |
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Fully synthetic oil makes a big difference, particularly the grades at the lower viscosity end like 5w/30, you just don't get the carbon
contamination and varnish build up.
When change the oil on the tintop it looks amazingly clean for an engine with 80,000 miles on it --- although the last 10,000 have been on LPG which
helps a lot.
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 02:13 PM |
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If you've got the room, put cardboard down to cath any drips, and use the sump plug to remove the oil if its at the lpwest point. The flow of
oil will remove most of the sediment with it, but be aware of how much oil is in the engine!! I tried to drain 7L with a 5L can to catch it in,
dropped the plug in the full 5L tub, and got stuck under the car with my finger in the hole full of warm oil!! I eventually had to take the plunge ad
spill oil (over the cardboard) that was displaced when I put my hand in to fish out the drain plug!!
[Edited on 12-33-10 by MakeEverything]
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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bimbleuk
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 02:15 PM |
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I've been using a hand pumped vaccum jobbie from CBS. I use it for just about all the liquids on a car.
When I stripped the engine bay of an RX7 recently I ran the nozzle up evey pipe on the car which contained a liquid. There's plenty of places
where pipes don't naturally drain. This made the whole process a lot cleaner than I've experienced before especially as it wasn't my
drive I was working on!
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 02:26 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
I have been using a Seago Vacuum oil extractor for a while on the tintop it sucks the 5w/30 out the sump in about 5 minutes and drains it very near
as well as the drain plug.
I use the same one on my car, and it does an excellent job. The first time I tried it I undid the sump plug afterwards to see how much it left in and
barely anything came out.
I do find you need to get the oil nice and hot first or it takes forever.
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Canada EH!
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 02:27 PM |
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I have a small brass suction device for my inboard boat, I find it just as messy as dropping the drain plug on the car and your hands still get hot
from holding the brass tube.
There are large vacuum units which hold about 6 litres that the marina's use to service the boats, but expensive.
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gazzarose
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 02:30 PM |
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In mork with us we use a sucky outy thing when we service the boats, theres no room under the sump to get a tray under so its the only way with out
dropping the oil into the bilge. We do it with everything from V8s to big diesels. The VW marine diesels, actually have a pump built in, so you just
push a button and it pumps its self dry.
Gareth
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 02:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
hmmm, you are probbly thinking of old skool engines, cross flow, pinto, rover v8, zetec maybe .... it wouldn't surprise me that modern engines
run so clean and are built to much tighter tolerances that there will be a lot less solids and crud.
zetec = old skool thats modern as far as I'm concerned 
but I did start of with a 21 year old mk1 fiesta running half decent mineral oil, but it was actually quite clean (it had only done 24k when I got it
)
quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Fully synthetic oil makes a big difference, particularly the grades at the lower viscosity end like 5w/30, you just don't get the carbon
contamination and varnish build up.
When change the oil on the tintop it looks amazingly clean for an engine with 80,000 miles on it --- although the last 10,000 have been on LPG which
helps a lot.
There was a bit of crap in the bottom of the focus sump at 80k (1.8 zetec, sump rusted through ) but I've no idea what oil it had in it
before I got it
The semi synthetic 5w/30 I use now is a lot better
but its doesn't stay clean for nearly as long as the crapy old pug 106 I had before that, the focus must have had a bit of a hard life before I
got it
[Edited on 12/3/10 by mcerd1]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 03:57 PM |
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Big difference between semi and fully synthetic. Havoline Energy 5w/30 fully synthetic is only 17 quid for 5 litres from Morrisions petrol
stations.
I once put Castrol Magnatec in the engine but was so uhappy with it out it came after 1,000 miles.
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 12/3/10 at 04:00 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
I once put Castrol Magnatec in the engine but was so uhappy with it out it came after 1,000 miles.
thats what I've been using in the focus, but I've only done a couple of changes since I got the car - it worked a treat in the 106
though..... (that car just doesn't want to die)
[Edited on 12/3/10 by mcerd1]
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