Afternoon all.
I need a rear upright on my IRS fury re-made due to damage which has bent it beyond repair, there are also some basic design improvements I want to
implement.
This isn't your normally rear upright, it uses the golf mk2 front strut sitting on top and a single long wishbone for location. Pictures will
explain all!
I would do this at home but simply don't have any time to spare right now.
I have some of the original drawings ( Steve at fury can only find the front and rear faces) these have most of the measurements, the others will
have to be taken from the good remaining upright.
I've tried various engineering firms near my business and no one is interested. Not enough money in it for the hassle I bet.
I'm willing to pay an honest fee and not just beer tokens :-)
I'll have a look if you want
I have the same IRS fury. Where about a are you? You're welcome to take measurements if you want.
furyrebuild -- thanks for offer , im in Coventry but I wont need to take the measurements as the nearside upright is in fine form. Seems like very few
Chapman strut type fury's are around, unless you know of more?
Have you replaced the rear shocks? I have spoken with GAZ who will custom make some replacements with suitable valves but at an eye watering £250 each
and then plus the VAT and springs!
Joe, glad of the offer . Ill U2U you with my details and how you want to work this. Thankyou.
Below Pictures of the good upright and the drawing from Steve at Fury
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I am on gas shocks and springs myself. I got them from a company called Cornering Force, and they could probably order you the same ones that he got for me. Simon who runs it is an excellent guy, really friendly, and did a lot of custom suspension work on my fury so he knows how they tick.What kind of modifications were you thinking of for your rear hubs? My car is in bits while I make extensive mods to it and I've not thought about attacking the hubs at the back.
looks the same as mine,...
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I had thought of moving to discs at the back, but a rewire is first.
Ill send Simon a message at cornering force, this is the place up in Harrogate?
Don't suppose you'd like to tell me what you paid for your rear uprights? are they straight swaps or do they need mods?
I always thought these were missing some gussets or extra bracing at the top , two options below. I span and the wheel went side onto the kerb which
buckled the upright quite easily.
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The 2nd picture would be a triangular gusset and not just two skinny braces 
Howard, don't see the point is discs at the rear yet, drums are effective and can lock up if the bias is set so.
Any major reason you wanted to convert? looks difficult due to the width of the upright .
Good to see the Fury is still being used in anger and for what it was (nearly) designed for :-)
Hello Ugg! how are you?
Yeah well it hasn't been used for some time really, 2nd child , new house blah blah blah ( normal kind of excuses) have stopped me getting it
out.
I've decided to now trailer it to trackdays rather than put it back on the road for now. Never pleasant getting the car moved outside the circuit
so it can be taken home by the RAC
Hows the 105e coming along?
Yes, Cornering Force, Harrogate. Mention me (Mark Prince) and Simon will know what you're on about. He corner-weighted my car and supplied Gaz
shocks and springs for me. He also fabricated a set of anti-roll-bars for me, so I think my spring rates will be different to yours. However, he can
calculate rates for you assuming your corner weights were similar to mine.
Simons a friend, and he has an enthusiastic and amazing knowledge of chassis dynamics and competition car suspension.
quote:
Originally posted by mazie
furyrebuild -- thanks for offer , im in Coventry but I wont need to take the measurements as the nearside upright is in fine form. Seems like very few Chapman strut type fury's are around, unless you know of more?
Have you replaced the rear shocks? I have spoken with GAZ who will custom make some replacements with suitable valves but at an eye watering £250 each and then plus the VAT and springs!
Joe, glad of the offer . Ill U2U you with my details and how you want to work this. Thankyou.
Below Pictures of the good upright and the drawing from Steve at Fury
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quote:
Originally posted by mazie
Hello Ugg! how are you?
Yeah well it hasn't been used for some time really, 2nd child , new house blah blah blah ( normal kind of excuses) have stopped me getting it out.
I've decided to now trailer it to trackdays rather than put it back on the road for now. Never pleasant getting the car moved outside the circuit so it can be taken home by the RAC
Hows the 105e coming along?
I was looking at the back axle and thinking about a complete overhaul, the brakes are more than satisfactory, but I have the "impossible to
get" CV joints and so I was thinking of changing the diff, drive shafts, carriers and brakes all at the same time. I even toyed with the idea of
a complete MX5 back end but Adi reminded me that it would require further changes.
For this year at least it will stay as it is, maybe if I can get a plug and play solution designed and built then I'll do the swap, otherwise it
wont happen.
Are you running the same push in CV joints as I am?
I'm on cosworth drive shafts and a quaife LSD. I too bent a hub in a big off. If I was to remake them I'd use t45 steel (or whatever the
flat sheet equivalent is). Lighter and stronger.
Now you've got me thinking. I might put the design through cad to see the weight saving. It would lend itself well to composites with hard points
as well. Hmmm
Howard, yes same rear end setup as you. No issues really with the drive shafts , until they wear and I have to replace them, or worse still break
something then i will change out for bolt on shafts and diff.
Furyrebuild ( whats ya name :-) sounds silly calling you that ) Now if you were to think about making some lighter stronger units im sure you may
have a few extra buys here! although with the extra bracing to support the top section id be happy with them, i could find easier weight saving
elsewhere!
You're right. That's weird. My name is Mark.
I could see a group build of lighter hubs. The design is simple (in a good way, simple isn't easy) and all of the parts could be laser cut.
There's probably 1kg to be had in the hub. It's Unsprung mass as well. The guys from Siltech racing reckon 10kg can be worth 0.4s at good
wood for a consistent driver.
if they are being redesigned is there any benefit in changing the shock mounting at the same time? Would that open up a wider range of shocks that could be deployed?
That's a good point. There must be plenty of McPherson strut setups that Gaz do make right now that could be used. The mountings can be specified so the top mount may hopefully be reused. I will check.
A Kilo would be a real nice saving in un-sprung weight.
My biggest bug bare is whenever the strut is removed or slackened it wipes out the camber setup, I do mark them as closely as i can and I can try and
dial in again afterwards but without the right tools its hard to get them spot on.
I've talked over converting to a double wishbone setup with Mark at fury before but this would involve a lot of re-engineering, he also reckons
this strut type setup was excellent but too costly to manufacturer and one of the reasons why they scraped it.
Mark would be great if we thought of a lightweight, stronger version .
I remember Mark telling me about this as well - they are the best for geometry. One method I'm going to use when I remake the front rockers
(again out of t45, and lighter and stronger) is to use a triumph spitfire/jaguar top ball joint. It is cross-bolted so can slide forwards and
backwards in a slot and therefor makes for easy camber adjustment. In order to make a repeatable position for it, I'm going to add an extra hole
ahead and behind of the locating holes for the ball-joint and make a cam lobe that is secured in the hole. So, wherever is right for the ball-joint is
where I then set the cam lobe and lock it. Then if it ever comes out it can go back in exactly the same place just by being up against the cam
lobe.
At the rear I changed mine quite a bit after I stuffed it at Harewood (span into the barrier at 80 - caused a lot of mess that day). The lower
wishbone bent quite a lot and the hub also took a twist. I always felt the lower wishbone was a weak spot - when you accelerate hard, there's a
rotational force twisting the wishbone through the axis it pivots on, so the wheel gets to move about. With the help of a friend/mentor, we changed it
to be two lower arms (made like a turnbuckle) and a trailing arm (pivoting just near where the harness mounting point is under your right elbow if
you're the driver.
This had many benefits:
I am very interested in this and the suspension arm modifications that you have made.
I would ideally like to do the whole lot in one go from a kit of parts, perhaps we can get a few people together and do them all together.
Have you thought about mentioning it on the JPSC website?
Was this design used on any of his other cars?
Hi Howard
Putting together 6 adjustable arms for the kit would be fine. I'd be happy to weld them up as well. The only bit of home-grown work/welding that
would be required would be to drill through the receiving hole where the trailing arm needs to be, weld a tube in and a sort of hat thing so the
1/2" bolt is not loaded in single shear.
I think this could be simplified a little if people were concerned about welding, and the whole receiving arrangement could be made as a bolt on part.
4 through bolts, one at each corner, and if you bonded it as well with an epoxy adhesive it wouldn't be going anywhere and you wouldn't be
welding. Your powder coat would then also survive in this area. The hub also needs a bracket welding on to it to take the trailing arm.
There is the head of a 1/2 bolt intruding into the passenger compartment, but it's down by your right cheek, so you don't knock against
it.
I haven't posted this in the JPSC site - it's only came about as well all think on it today.
Thoughts?
Mark,
it sounds interesting, I don't have any real qualms about welding, and would probably get it "done" what powder coating that is left is
in a poor state.
As a composites engineer, I like the idea of adhesives and spent some time at BAE gluing aircraft together! :0
Are you a member on JPSC?
On the time frame side of things I would like to get the bits and line this up for winter 16 work.
thanks again, this is very interesting
Hi Howard
Take a look at this - I'm making a fully composite tub for my car, which will be
bonded in.
So far, the mould is complete. I've also made the odd panel as practice parts, and a
composite passenger footwell which is utterly rock solid. The footwell allows the passenger
to tilt their feet forward, so much more comfy and I went to town on the layup so it's really tough. There's two layers of 300gsm aramid in
there as well for impact protection.
Everything is resin-infusion.
Mark, very interesting stuff, really got me thinking and great that you've done a lot so far. I'll have a butchers through your archive is
there are any pics of the mods I there, if not any chance of a few?
I'll have time free at the end of the year to start doing the same myself.
Howard & Mark did you both have steel floors and rear bulk heads? If so what have you done to replace the bracing, om trying to think of ways to
reduce weight whilst keeping the lardy windscreen.
quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Hi Howard
Take a look at this - I'm making a fully composite tub for my car, which will be bonded in.
So far, the mould is complete. I've also made the odd panel as practice parts, and a composite passenger footwell which is utterly rock solid. The footwell allows the passenger to tilt their feet forward, so much more comfy and I went to town on the layup so it's really tough. There's two layers of 300gsm aramid in there as well for impact protection.
Everything is resin-infusion.
How about getting some rear uprights designed and water jet cut like Doctor Derek Doctors has done in his build thread.
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Mazzie, it's pretty easy to replace the floors with composite, and save weight and gain strength. One of the earliest things I did was to make a
10mm sandwich piece between 2x300gsm aramid and 2x300gsm carbon. It takes my considerable weight when balanced on two soup tins while I bob up and
down on one foot. It actually has taken 20 stone on one foot on two soup tins, but it had made a couple of pinging sounds, so I didn't push it
any further.
So, replacing the zero strength ally floor that's riveted in for composites that are bonded in will save you about 40% of the weight and give you
a huge amount of strength.
I have cut out all of the tub and transmission tunnel, so I am getting the whole lot back with a composite tub.
quote:
Originally posted by mazie
Mark, very interesting stuff, really got me thinking and great that you've done a lot so far. I'll have a butchers through your archive is there are any pics of the mods I there, if not any chance of a few?
I'll have time free at the end of the year to start doing the same myself.
Howard & Mark did you both have steel floors and rear bulk heads? If so what have you done to replace the bracing, om trying to think of ways to reduce weight whilst keeping the lardy windscreen.
I'm interested if it replaces my hubs for less weight.
quote:
Originally posted by DW100
How about getting some rear uprights designed and water jet cut like Doctor Derek Doctors has done in his build thread.
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Had a good look through your 'modifications' mark :-) and you've gone all the way back and then some with the yours.
My initial thinking was to replace the steel floor with additional boxing and ali sheet. I've never played with caron or fibre to much extent
than making a few GRP panels.
Like you said making sure you dont get to the point of dding more weight than was there previously.
Only my front footwells are ali, the rest is steel all the way back to behind the bum and up to the shoulder. 720KG with my plump figure in it.
The ever obvious easy weight loss is the windscreen. I now dont plan to use the fury much on the road so the comfort factor and fear of stones, birds
( i had a pidgeon jump out and hit it which was funny( of said screen has diminished, so then go the wipers, motor, washer and bottle.
thatch got to be a good 35kg surely??
I'm really attached to the windscreen - I won't be losing it.
A friend of mine said "if you have to make a mod ... change EVERYTHING" and that's how this feels at the moment
Part of me wishes I hadn't gone on this mad carbon journey because it's taken too long, but the end result is going to be excellent. I
should have a lighter car, and I've gone for a 240bhp spec duratec as well, so it should shift.
mark.. really.. 'should shift' I reckon your safe to say it will shift!
On a drive from London to the nurburgring in heavy rain , I found the windscreen to fog on the inside which was a nightmare for visibility! Bizzle was
in front and with his spray included in the mix wasn't pleasant!
When Im ready to visit Simon up at cornering force ill be sure to let you know ,maybe pop in to see your car with a cuppa.
Russ
That'd be great. I live a 10 minute drive from Cornering Force, so I could come there and meet you. You're welcome to pick over the things I've done, and especially take a look at the floor panels I made. I'm not using them, but they will give an example of the weight savings you can get. The strength is weirdly high.
Hi Joe
Any chance you've had a look at the upright for me?
thanks
Russ
Have you seen this on the stratos thread?
Looks very interesting
rear sus
Similar arrangement
So, best I see... That wishbone looks strengthened in the right place but you still have the twist about the pivot issue and there's no sign of a trailing link.