As per the title,
I really can't decide, do I go with a zetec that I could tune up to 200 ish bhp or do I go with a cheap bike engine (Thinking fireblade). I
assume the cec will be faster in a straight line due to the greater power but I'm guessing the bec will be better round corners due to weight
Am I right in thinking this about the performance of the two?
Thanks everyone :-)
oh god BEC vs CEC again...
mate you need to actually try both types and then decide which suits your needs best, as each has good and bad points depending on what your going to
do with the car
[Edited on 22/4/09 by Mr Whippy]
I have had both 1 with a ZX-9 and currently one with a 2.0 Zetec with TB's.
IMHO for driving on the public road and cruising i would say CEC, for public road and a lot of trackdays i would go for BEC.
I choose in the end for a CEC i use it only on the public roads and it drives a lot more comfy.
But then again this is my opinion based on own experience.
Depends what you want.
If you want a car for longish journeys which is easy to drive and reliable go for a car engine.
If you want a track day car for short runs which is hard work to drive (up and down the gears all the time, and tiring on a long journey because of
the revs) build a bike engined one.
Having driven both, and the sort of driving I do, I know which I prefer 
[Edited on 22/4/09 by flak monkey]
quote:
Arrgh how are you meant to decide between BEC and CEC?
I think you are being a very naughty boy. 2 years membership and over 500 posts - then you ask this?!...Did you often start fights at school?
Sorry, just looked back at the vote and it wasnt 50-50, it was 57.25-42.75
Linky
Also with a BEC your poor thrashed small capacity engine is now hauling the extra weight of two very large burger eating Americans and then two
passengers on top of that… Don’t expect the engine to last anything like as long as a car engine especially being mistreated in the wrong vehicle
it was designed for
Oops looks like I've inadvertentley opened up the proverbial tin of worms,
I know there will never be a definitive answer, I was just wondering what would be quicker, all things considered between a blade and a 200 bhp
zetec,
I know the whole bec v cec has been going on since the dawn of time so sorry for bringing it up again, I just wanted opinions on these two specific
choices
Thanks
Matt
Good grief, not again, though advice is sought so here's mine for what it's worth...
Are you doing dB attentive track days, lugging lard, shopping in town, want big numbers on torque/bhp down the pub, don't like screaming engines,
sequential gearboxes or fragile clutches? You need a CEC.
Are you an motorcyclist, like a car that screams on the track, do you weigh less than 17 stone, avoid passengers, you need a BEC. You really do, in
fact, mine!
Also bear in mind the cost of insurance, I've been getting some insurance quotes lately and because its a BEC it gets a 'weighting' on
premium. Last quote got raised from £111 to £220 because of it.
Not a great deal but will add up if you plan to keep it for a while.
[Edited on 22/4/09 by Colnago_Man]
quote:
Originally posted by novacaine
Oops looks like I've inadvertentley opened up the proverbial tin of worms,
I know there will never be a definitive answer, I was just wondering what would be quicker, all things considered between a blade and a 200 bhp zetec,
I know the whole bec v cec has been going on since the dawn of time so sorry for bringing it up again, I just wanted opinions on these two specific choices
Thanks
Matt
Theres hardly any difference between the two, its all down to how well the car is set up, how sticky your tyres are and how much bottle you have.
To me the 220bhp zetec with 200ftlb would be my choice
quote:
Originally posted by Paul TigerB6
quote:
Originally posted by Colnago_Man
Also bear in mind the cost of insurance, I've been getting some insurance quotes lately and because its a BEC it gets a 'weighting' on premium. Last quote got raised from £111 to £220 because of it.
Not a great deal but will add up if you plan to keep it for a while.
[Edited on 22/4/09 by Colnago_Man]
Offset by cheaper tax though!!
)...what’s it like in a BEC?
Thanks for the replies everyone, I think after the above posts I am more likely to go cec, I can imagine a bec to get tiresome but I would put up with
it if it was significantley quicker
Thanks
quote:
Originally posted by novacaineI was just wondering what would be quicker, all things considered between a blade and a 200 bhp zetec.
quote:
Originally posted by sucksqueezebangblow
quote:
Originally posted by novacaineI was just wondering what would be quicker, all things considered between a blade and a 200 bhp zetec.
No question the BEC would be quicker. Weight kills two things on a car; acceleration and cornering grip. The lighter a car for a given power output the faster it will accelerate and the faster it will go 'round corners. The sequential shift on a bike engine can also save you up to a 10th per shift, which can amount to a second or more per lap.
after having a BEC id never consider changing, the noise, gearchange, acceleration...its brilliant...
Flip a coin
Personally I've got a car-engined-car and a bike-engined-bike.
quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by sucksqueezebangblow
quote:
Originally posted by novacaineI was just wondering what would be quicker, all things considered between a blade and a 200 bhp zetec.
No question the BEC would be quicker. Weight kills two things on a car; acceleration and cornering grip. The lighter a car for a given power output the faster it will accelerate and the faster it will go 'round corners. The sequential shift on a bike engine can also save you up to a 10th per shift, which can amount to a second or more per lap.
I don't believe the weight will make up for 50bhp of power with a wider and larger torque band. Though as with all things it will depend on the track. NS Dev who's driven both has said a 200bhp XE and an R1 are about equivalent.
The BEC gearchange is quicker, but you'll be making more of them, so you can end up losing over the lap.
So I believe your 'no question' is far too simplistic. On the road the whole power thing is borderline irrelevant anyway, they're both much faster accelerating than any tin-top, and but have a lower top speed than 50% of them.
quote:
Originally posted by sucksqueezebangblow
quote:
Originally posted by iank
quote:
Originally posted by sucksqueezebangblow
quote:
Originally posted by novacaineI was just wondering what would be quicker, all things considered between a blade and a 200 bhp zetec.
No question the BEC would be quicker. Weight kills two things on a car; acceleration and cornering grip. The lighter a car for a given power output the faster it will accelerate and the faster it will go 'round corners. The sequential shift on a bike engine can also save you up to a 10th per shift, which can amount to a second or more per lap.
I don't believe the weight will make up for 50bhp of power with a wider and larger torque band. Though as with all things it will depend on the track. NS Dev who's driven both has said a 200bhp XE and an R1 are about equivalent.
The BEC gearchange is quicker, but you'll be making more of them, so you can end up losing over the lap.
So I believe your 'no question' is far too simplistic. On the road the whole power thing is borderline irrelevant anyway, they're both much faster accelerating than any tin-top, and but have a lower top speed than 50% of them.
I disagree. This is not a subjective matter but an objective one. And in addition to the points I made previously, there is also the matter of reciprocating and rotating mass within the drive train. Such mass also kills acceleration, and once again the BEC has less reciprocating and rotating mass in the drive train than a CEC. In fact it is that lack of mass that makes BECs less smooth to drive on the road where the rotating mass of CECs is desireable as it gives more flywheel effect.
).
You could also take the best of both worlds and put an s2000 engine in it. Probably a little bit more expensive than a zetec, but much faster with 240bhp and a red line of 9000 rpm.
be interested to hear the mpgs argument...surely the tuned zetec would be worse?
Do other forum users care about 20 or 30 mpgs on their seven?
quote:
Originally posted by afj
Flip a coin
I still on my 1st kit car which is a BEC.
Second type on engine (ZX12r)
Thing is though, if I was to build a second kit car I would want to have a new expirence.
So the choices would not be BEC or CEC rather than, Cobra / Ultima etc 
Still. Long way off that choice yet.
May be the next choice will be Turbo/Supercharger
Build two, one CEC & the other BEC have them the same colour, duplicate the chassis & number plates & then go out in whichever suits the
needs & best bit only one IVA.
Alan...
These posts can go on for ever with people saying what they have got is better be it BEC or CEC all you can do is listen to the pro's and
con's of each.
There is one simple solution. Decide what YOU want from the car and this will determine the engine/car that you need.
If you want a civilised car that you can poodle round town in on a friday night posing to the girlies with hardly any clothes on on their way to the
night club and one that you can sit at 2000rpm at 70mph on a boring motorway journey touring for thousands of miles then a CEC is for you. On the
other hand if you want a car which will be more demanding to drive, harder to get used to a clutch which is like a switch and a throttle which when
you touch it the rev counter needle goes round like a catherine wheel but equally enjoyable to drive when you get to the open lanes and you open the
throttle, clutchless gear changes up the sequential gearbox, cornering like you're on rails and leaving everything in your dust then a BEC is for
you.
I personally chose a BEC because I really would like another motorbike. I have had big CC very fast Superbike replica's in the past but gave them
up because I have Kiddies to think of and there are so many day dreamers driving their tin boxes about with no regard for anyone else, plus I could
only go out on my own as the wife would have to look after kiddies and I wouldn't dream of taking one of them on a bike. The BEC gives me the
best of both worlds. I have the bike engine for the performance and sound but I can also take one of the family out with me if they want to. I also
wanted something different to drive as I do a lot of miles for my job and a CEC for me would be just like getting into my company car and going off to
work. There, they are my resons for MY choice, wether someone agree's or disagree's I don't give a sh1t as it is MY car not
their's. This is what you have to do to decide.
There are pros and cons of each. I'll try to be unbiased.
I know of both people who wish they had built a BEC and those who wish they built a CEC having built the other.
Both are fun to drive (I have driven both) within reason.
The biggest single downside as far as I am concerned with BEC's is the revs at a normal cruising speed are incredibly tiring. Hence why I built a
CEC. If I had a wanted a weekend toy for the track then I would have built a BEC, but I built mine knowing that I will be doing a lot of miles to
shows, meets and events. The other less 'important' downsides are the clutches dont last long and tend to overheat if you get stuck in
traffic and you have no reverse built in (ever tried reversing with a starter motor based reverse?! Its silly!) and the lack of torque means you are
up and down the box like a yo-yo.
There is only one downside to CEC over BEC and that is purely weight - which leads on to a lot of the other arguments. However a modern, all aluminium
car engine is also very light so that gap is closing up.
You can have just as much fun on the back roads in a CEC as in a BEC. Even with the lump of a pinto in the front I am never far behind anyone else if
out in a group. It will be interesting to see the difference with the duratec too!
Trouble is having a quick blast in one of each isn't enough to base a decision on. You need to weigh up what you want the car for and then make
the decision based on that. Don't be forced one way or the other by peoples opinions. Try to dig out the facts from this lot if you can!
David
[Edited on 22/4/09 by flak monkey]
quote:
Originally posted by iank
Only difference with a BEC is it comes pretuned to racing levels,
Having owned and driven BEC's and covered tens of thousands of miles on road, done numerous trackdays and spent probably three full days on drag
strips, I can honestly say that we have never once had to replace the clutch that came with the engine. As for them overheating in traffic..........
This also applies to the majority of other BEC's that we know of.
Best way to decide is to get a ride in each and see which you'd prefer.
Phil
Don't forget there are many different BEC engines as well as CEC engines.
I have just upgraded from a 1996 Suzuki RF900RS (5speed) engiine to a 2005 ZX12R engine.
Yes way more power, but so far not as good in traffic as the RF900.
I guess mainly because the ZX12R is not setup yet. But my old RF900 was just easy to drive, even in commuter traffic.
But I would have to agree on the cruising point.
I there there is a compromise.
Get a Suzuki GSXR1100 WN/WP and fit a 3.14 diff.
My RF900 (same gear box) only did 6500rpm at 70mph with a 3.92 diff.
A 3.14 i think should give a 5200rpm at 70mph, just crusing for a bike engine.
Still when I can get a 5l V8 cobra that does 50mpg I ready to change.
quote:
Originally posted by rf900rush
Still when I can get a 5l V8 cobra that does 50mpg I ready to change.
I'd PERSONALLY go car engine, based on my experience of both (I also have a twin bike engined car! )
BUT, you need to try them both, and there are plenty on here who will gladly scare you witless with their car!
Try a good 200hp zetec or vauxhall XE engine one then try a ZX12 or R1 BEC and see how they compare, completely different, but not that different
against a watch, is the answer I got when we tried!
Even the zetec and XE cars will be totally different though, so who knows!