After getting my car off the stand, just had time to get to the dyno lads before they packed up.

In the car is a 1985, pinto 2lt EFI. It suits me as I am not really a boy racer, but decided to check things out.

Please could someone explain to me (i'm not a mechanic, electrically minded or engineer) what this all means.

The dyno lads did not have the time to explain things from the results but I think I am in a bad way as I was informed it badly needs a service (it has had new sparking plugs last year, air filter, oil changed as well), a sugestion was sticking injectors. How can this be explained from the chart!!!!what should it look like....

Any help, besides getting a new engine or new car would be appreciated....



dynolog
TimR


[Edited on 5-5-2009 by vindicator]

Erm.... link not working and if i cut and paste it comes up as "file not found"

For those that cant see the picture.

Blast beaten to it by original poster.


dynolog

[Edited on 5/5/09 by jollygreengiant]

That your pinto has less BHP than a 0.9 litre Smart Car engine but weighs 4 times as much.

Ahh ... I see it now.
I would set up the rocker gaps, check the timing and set up everything you can then a session on a rolling road should get back the missing horses.
A problem with an injector could well loose you a fair few bhp, why not see if anyone has converted an injection engine to carbs and has the injectors spare, you could then swap out one injector at a time and possibly isolate the dodgy one.

I would think you should have well over 65bhp tbh.

I would get your fueling and ignition checked out by a local tuner. Is your engine tappey? Valve clearances ok?

was i the only happy 1 with 137 from zx9c

Three runs, the top lines are the torque (scale on the right), the bottom ones the power(scale on the left). Something wrong there, you should have more than that.

If the oil was changed last year and its been sat over the winter then it would be worth refreshing that aswell.......first thing i did on getting my new car home was change the oil/filter and i couldnt belive how much better it pulled/ran! Dont think it had been done since the previous summer.

OK, well loking at the consistency of the graphs in Shoot 4 mode i would suggest cam timing or clearances, as the graphs are pretty equal in results.

How is the air intake? Could be strangled?

There is a slight difference in pickup at 1800 revs with torque increasing and bhp but then settles on a steady state climb.

I would have expected about 85-100bhp at wheels dependent on state of tune.

Did they just interpolate roller rpms or did they use all functions? Ignition, Co, etc?

Was that the only print out?

I should point out that if used properly all parameters are measured and capable of being printed, albeit on a seperate sheet.
You've only got temps there:- inlet temp (IT)air temp(AT) , barometric pressure (BP)

Rob Lane

[Edited on 5/5/09 by Rob Lane]

quote:

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Originally posted by gazza285
Three runs, the top lines are the torque (scale on the right), the bottom ones the power(scale on the left). Something wrong there, you should have more than that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by iank
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?

Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Ninehigh

quote:

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Originally posted by iank
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?

Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.

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Would a mid 80's engine have an ecu?

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quote:

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Originally posted by blakep82

quote:

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Originally posted by Ninehigh

quote:

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Originally posted by iank
Roughly double that.
What ECU are you using? all the original sensors in place (and known to be working)?

Finally the ECU could be in limp home mode due to an out of spec sensor.

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Would a mid 80's engine have an ecu?

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if its injection, then it has to

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my only comment will be

The torque curve looks a little lumpy, but not sure if its the right shape. Bit too flat to me??

Could well be an air restriction as torque is a measure of BMEP - and bhp is only a rev-based version of it.

thanks for the reply's most were helpful. The car to me seemed ok, only a bit of backfiring now and again when taking the big right foot off the peddle. It did a whole days drive round the peak district and snake's pass without any trouble a few weeks ago. (omega0684 missed out on that one!!)

Usually it does 70 on the motorway ok, but have to push it over 70 if I am on a private road (honestly!!!). It is out once or twice a week doing 60 miles per day to work and back.

Some collegues say that they wished they had the same power as me....but I can't understand the print out.

Yes, the 2lt pinto should do 115BHP when new, but this print out is in HP as other things are attached to the engine now and will show lower figures.

The tappets are ok and don't rattle, the air supply is pretty straight with a big cone filter on it. The only thing is oil seals which I want to do next as when I first start it from cold there is a bit of blue smoke other than that it is very clean.

I have bought some new plug leads from the show and will put these on as the old ones have never been changed by me and are looking quite old.

I have some spare time tomorrow night and will check the timing and plugs and let you know what I find...

regards..

TimR

Only real thing I can think of is a severe lack of valve lift.

Ford bhp figures were always a little on the "optomistic" side - no carburettored 1600CVH ever made 96bhp from the factory! Even so, that's a lot of horses that have escaped...

I'd suggest trying to measure the valve lift and compare it with stock..

The plot aint worth anything without the AFR plot on. So you can see the fueling.
I guess they didn't fit the lambda probe for the runs ?

[Edited on 6/5/09 by Rob Allison]

The "problem" with light cars is 60bhp will feel the same as 120bhp in a tin-top, so as long as it's smooth you won't feel it's a problem if not used to the face wobbling acceleration they can give.

Hi

Just out of interest which company was it with the dyno.

Cheers Matt

As I said previously, the show had closed (4.30pm) and we got our cars off the stand and raced over there. The lads from M-tech could have said no as they wanted to leave as well. It was the only graph I was given and no other sensor was connected.

The company was M-tech automotive (that is the name on the printed graph)....they have a web site based in the south (Wiltshire). Just had another look at their web site and found the pics of the staff (owners!!). Thank you Mathew!!!

I think it was brilliant of them to show up and give us some food for thought.

Not advertising for them, but they do an all round system check on all cars.

quote:

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Originally posted by vindicator
Yes, the 2lt pinto should do 115BHP when new, but this print out is in HP as other things are attached to the engine now and will show lower figures.

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Thanks for the info Mike, will try and get home early tonight and take the spark plugs out and check them out. May even publish the pics....

TimR

ps. Have also a new set of ignition leads to fit. The fuel I have not touched and still using the same pump that came with the engine. Have put a filter between the tank and the pump.....

[Edited on 6-5-2009 by vindicator]

Well here goes.....

Started to take off the leads from the dizzy cap and found only one side was screwed in the other side was loose....

Changed the leads and found a slight cut on the outer covering.

leads
Took the plugs out and checked the gaps and they were not to bad but they do look a mess. A few mins with a wire brush and they came back to new again.


plugs

Decided to take a quick trip round town and the drive fell very light and instant response from the engine. Even starting from hot the engine starts first click, before it took a few turns of the engine to start.

So I think I have got back a few more horses.....next task shortly is the valve seals ......

thanks for your help .....

Regards

2 of those plugs are showing pretty bad signs of oil contamination; a third looks not as bad, and the 4th (could be the camera angle) looks like it has a gap you could drive a bus through..

Oil stem seals would be a good starting point (otherwise its rings..) - I was thinking about this at work today and wondered if your throttle cable was correct in allowing the throttle body to fully open? From what I remember of EFi Ford ones of that era, the last 25% of throttle opens it the last 50%....

Having just perused the Sylva mailing list, it seems a there were rather a lot of dodgy numbers being produced by that particular rolling road. Clairetoo's engine was somewhat down on power (though sounding lovely!), and a chap with an R1 engined car got 111bhp from what should be a 150bhp engine.

Your Pinto is certainly burning a bit of oil though, fouled plugs can make a surprising difference as you have noticed.

Morning, driven the car on the motor way to work this morning......WOW.....what a difference.

The engine seems more clean, responsive on acceleration and instead of just slowly passing cars as they pull over into the middle lane, I seem to be flying past them.

I agree, I must get round to the valve oil seals....I have them already and it is just time to get round to them.

As to the readings on the rolling road, my 2 other collegues....
rover v8 turbo and that produced 160HP
ford cvh 2lt efi and produced 115HP (I think!!)

But I am happy as this was the starting point and can now work forward and monitor the progress.

We will be at the NEwark show this weekend on the saturday if you would like to have it checked over again?

Its a Dyno Dynamics rolling road, universally accepted to be the most accurate chassis type dyno available. Power runs are £30, and we will only be available on the Saturday, as we are off to PFC show on the sunday... busy weekend!

See you all there!

Thanks for the offer, but I won't be able to make it.

Just walked through the door after a brilliant weekend doing the London to Brighton run on Sunday and staying over night in Brighton.

Since the last post, the head came off and the valves were re-ground and oil stem seals replaced. Just this alone seemed to improve the performance. There was a noticed improvement in throttle between 60-90MPH.

Next improvement was moving the air filter and air flow meter that was behind the radiator sucking in hot air, to in front of the radiator. This seems to improve speed and also over this weekend, mpg.

So I am more than happy, and the real reason why I can't make this Saturday, is that tomorrow (tuesday), I have to be in another part of the world on business for a fortnight.

However, I shall come and see you again when I can go to another show and you are there.

regards

Timr