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Drifting causing duratec engine smoke

se7ensport - 15/1/17 at 08:26 PM

I was at the NEC Autosport show on Friday doing autosolo passenger rides for the day, as there wasn't a clock running I had plenty of fun drifting the car from lock to lock. Unusually when back in the paddock after 30seconds of mucking about loads of white smoke would come out of the exhaust (it's definitely oil being burnt).

This has only happened in the past when I have overfilled with oil, and It only seems to be rough driving that does it. After 5mins of idling with loads of smoke it would clear, and no smoke on the 70mile return leg even with gearshifts on the 7000 rev limit.

The sump is a wet raceline one, that according to them is capable of use with slicks as long as it's got the full quota of oil and the oil temperature is monitored.

Any ideas on the cause? I plan to compression test next week as part of my regular once over, is there anything else I should be looking into?

Cheers
Alex

Dick - 15/1/17 at 09:05 PM

Have you got the side breather blanked off?

jeffw - 15/1/17 at 10:20 PM

We have a winner

se7ensport - 15/1/17 at 10:37 PM

Side breather and cam breather both go to a catch tank.

Dick - 16/1/17 at 08:48 AM

I would blank the side one off then and make sure you are unrestricted in the cam cover pipe to a good breather tank

peter030371 - 16/1/17 at 09:58 AM

I thought the side breather is only blanked off for dry sump setups. Why blank it off on a wet sump?

loggyboy - 16/1/17 at 10:37 AM

White smoke? wouldnt oil be blue?

Dick - 16/1/17 at 12:16 PM

Nope can blank them off even with wet sumps lots of duratecs and zetecs do this . Lots of new synthetic oil don't burn blue.

peter030371 - 16/1/17 at 12:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dick
Nope can blank them off even with wet sumps lots of duratecs and zetecs do this . Lots of new synthetic oil don't burn blue.

Arse, only last week I ordered my catch tank with two inlets! Not that one inlet less makes a difference to pricing but now going to have a spare inlet that needs blanking off.....time to fire up the lathe and turn up a blanking plug

lordbenny - 16/1/17 at 02:51 PM

I did a lot of research into blanking off the side breather on my zetec and came to the conclusion that it was better to keep it....I don't have smoke issues but then again I haven't done an autotest in it yet!

FuryRebuild - 16/1/17 at 05:18 PM

SBD sell a block to head restricting nozzle - the duratec under high and sustained cornering (sounds like drifting to me) can over-oil the head and the oil doesn't get back down soon enough. it goes up the large oil-drains in the side of the block. As such, you end up with this issue and a potential starvation issue.

The nozzle is quite cheap, but of course, you need the head off to fit it. I have a two-stage dry sump, so I run the nozzle as well. the only way to avoid it is to have an extra stage on your pump to scavenge the head as well.

I'm not an engine builder, and my advice carries no warranty. I'm just letting you know what they advised me, and I bought and fitted one.

Thanks
M

se7ensport - 16/1/17 at 06:13 PM

That's interesting, I'll have a chat with SBD tomorrow as they must recognise an issue to sell a part to fix....

I spoke with Raceline today as I wanted their thoughts on my set up, in summary they are confident the wet sump is upto the challenge, but do not recommend blanking off the crankcase vent - they only do this on a dry setup.

I'm looking to get my hands on a second engine to fettle, so fitting this during the build would'nt be an issue.

All I want is reliability.

quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
SBD sell a block to head restricting nozzle - the duratec under high and sustained cornering (sounds like drifting to me) can over-oil the head and the oil doesn't get back down soon enough. it goes up the large oil-drains in the side of the block. As such, you end up with this issue and a potential starvation issue.

The nozzle is quite cheap, but of course, you need the head off to fit it. I have a two-stage dry sump, so I run the nozzle as well. the only way to avoid it is to have an extra stage on your pump to scavenge the head as well.

I'm not an engine builder, and my advice carries no warranty. I'm just letting you know what they advised me, and I bought and fitted one.

Thanks
M

FuryRebuild - 16/1/17 at 08:05 PM

The duratec is great. I learned a lot from rebuilding mine. It's incredibly well designed. The only part of my engine that's not been modified is the crank, which has been part of a rotating balance job. It's been drilled as part of this. So, I think there isn't part of mine that's been unmolested. Even the crank case breather has had the valve part removed.

peter030371 - 17/1/17 at 08:50 AM

quote:
Originally posted by se7ensport
I spoke with Raceline today as I wanted their thoughts on my set up, in summary they are confident the wet sump is upto the challenge, but do not recommend blanking off the crankcase vent - they only do this on a dry setup.

With my engine currently out I have the chance to blank off the side vent now before it goes back in but now I am in two minds! Do you know if Raceline mention taking the PCV out like some have done but still leave the vent in?

matt5964 - 17/1/17 at 09:41 AM

whsn i had my enging built at Dunnell paul recomended blanking off the breather.

I have a catch can fitted to the cam cover outlet.

Been set up like this for a couple of years with no issues road or track. I dont run slicks though nust R1Rs

se7ensport - 18/1/17 at 07:21 PM

Update from discussion with SBD: the oil restrictor they fit has a slightly smaller hole in it than the headgasket; both do the same job of keeping the majority of the oil in the lower half of the engine where it is needed. Conclusion is that there is something wrong with the engine and they recommend a full leak down test to identify.

Dick - 18/1/17 at 07:30 PM

Strange it only fails in hard g force and not when in a straight line. The restrictor in the head is a very long way up from the raceline sump so I'm confused about how this would keep the oil in the sump being nearly a 1 foot above it, are they saying the oil can go back up the side of the block via the drain holes in the side and up to the head, would think with that much oil not in the sump you would have had bearings failed. Just trying to understand

[Edited on 18/1/17 by Dick]

[Edited on 18/1/17 by Dick]

mikey p - 4/5/17 at 09:09 PM

What was the outcome of this?

se7ensport - 10/5/17 at 06:49 PM

Compression test revealed rings in cylinders 3 and 4 were shot, on inspection looks like over heated.

Fitted a new engine and oil cooler with thermostat and added a temperature sensor to the sump. Will be using it in anger this Sunday with a couple of runs up Prescott, interested to see where the temp gets if it's a nice day.

mikey p - 10/5/17 at 06:56 PM

Oh right. I suspected it would be a ring getting stuck from time to time. Have you had the engine apart to inspect or just replaced and got rid? How hot did it get?

se7ensport - 13/5/17 at 08:40 AM

I've not split the engine down yet, that's on my to do list as I'll be selling the head as it's the high flow Focus one.

At one point the wire to the fan was knocked off when changing the suspension settings, I only noticed something was up when the temperature hit 120 and it normally sits at 90!