Syd Bridge
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| posted on 29/7/07 at 09:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
I see your point but I am unaware of any BS standard that is required for these components so I can't really comment but I would have thought if
anyone is going to invest in the moulds and engineering expertise to make these things, then they would have to be fit for purpose at the very least.
Is there ANY legislation covering this area or are we talking hyperthetically?
It's far too easy to have a set of patterns made, and castings done. Then peddle the things on the open market. You don't have to be a
qualified engineer to do it, either, nor know any of the maths necessary, nor be able to perform the calcs. Anyone can go out and do it, unchecked.
Standards are set by SAE, and testing can be done by STATUS for anyone in the kit industry who is a member.
Marc, please post a pic of your test certificate. Only then will your claims of compliance, fitness for purpose, or strength be worth the space they
take up in this interweb.
Until a manufacturer posts a copy of his independantly attained test certificate, then ALL of these aluminium castings are highly
suspect, and to be considered to be used only for off road use.
Cheers,
Syd. 
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RazMan
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| posted on 29/7/07 at 09:41 AM |
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Surely the same would apply to wishbones, hubs, even chassis in that case? - not to mention the recent De-dion axle fiasco shouted (at considerable
volume  ) by calvinX.
As you say, practically anyone can make these parts and many of course do, but I can't recall anyone proudly exhibiting any sort of test
certificate stating that their product is 'safe'. Perhaps this is a grey area which will receive more attention as SVA rulings get more
strict and this is the type of legislation which will kill the kit car market IMO, although I think everyone can see the reasons behind it.
Even my own chassis manufacturer, Aeon Sportscars, has gone to extreme lengths getting their geometry and durability destruction tested at LEDAR -
even wind tunnel testing the bodywork, but I don't think even they have any certification that means anything to the likes of the average
builder - it's mainly reams of spreadsheet data from what I have seen.
[Edited on 29-7-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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marc n
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| posted on 29/7/07 at 09:56 AM |
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Standards are set by SAE, and testing can be done by STATUS for anyone in the kit industry who is a member.
unfortunately syd i have been in contact with status who advised they are unable to test these items ???
cheers
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 30/7/07 at 09:32 AM |
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They were doing them 10 years ago, and I spoke to George re the very same thing at the a show a year or so back. Maybe you need to find another
tester. If there is a sincere will there is a way. MIRA comes to mind quickly.
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rally design
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| posted on 30/7/07 at 10:24 AM |
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Ally Uprights
I don't normally get involved in this lot but feel I must defend our corner.
With regard to our ally uprights they are to the same design as Raceleda with the agreement of Bruce from Raceleda.
The reason it has taken so long to produce this product is that we are proceeding carefully with due diligence to safety standards.
I too am concerned about strength issues relating to ally uprights and agree with contributor Syd that non heat treated LM25 is totally unsuitable.All
our LM25 uprights will have a copy of a certificate stating the heat treatment performed.It would be sensible to ask for same from whoever you buy
cast ally uprights.
Raceleda had excellent results with their uprights and to my knowledge did not have a failure,however we are placing a 700kg upper weight limit on
this item until our testing reveals the possibility of that being relaxed.
With regard to 'slagging off' chinese manufactured components that is unreasonable-most of our chinese sourced parts are from an OEM
supplier who has quality control systems in place that are far more rigorous than most UK small manufacturers.I have to be honest and say that our
chinese supplier has lifted Rally Design's quality,his delivery deadlines are reliable,the product is well packaged and presented and at prices
which all kit car builders find attractive.We have rejected product made in China but equally have rejected rubbish made in the UK-we do not source
from the very cheapest for inevitably you do get what you pay for.
Many of the kit car manufacturers have lost their product liability insurance over the last 18 months because a leading underwriter lost confidence
after a powerful vehicle had a serious accident.
Rally Design is proud to advise that we maintained our product liability insurance because our underwriter respected that we have inspection and QA
standards that met their requirements.
Rally Design sources product from all over the world but in excess of 50% is still UK sourced.It's competitive prices are due to buying in big
volumes often from OEM suppliers,these volumes are always larger than the manufacturers and often they buy from us on a wholesale basis.
Hope that makes matters very transparent.
Dave Elderfield
Managing Director,Rally Design Ltd
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marc n
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| posted on 30/7/07 at 11:20 AM |
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quote:
I too am concerned about strength issues relating to ally uprights and agree with contributor Syd that non heat treated LM25 is totally unsuitable.All
our LM25 uprights will have a copy of a certificate stating the heat treatment performed.It would be sensible to ask for same from whoever you buy
cast ally uprights.
agreed we can provide the same certificate
( what sid is asking for is testing of the components by status ) who when i enquired said they couldnt do any tests of a component of this kind,
although mira may be a possibility
the referance to china was more an indication of how you sell them cheaper as your manufacturing is cheaper , hence also the referance of you dont
include brake brackets in your price
best regards
marc
please email rather than u2u
direct workshop email ( manned 8am till 6pm )
www.mnrltd.co.uk enquireys to :-
chrismnrltd@btinternet.com
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NOTE:This user is registered as a LocostBuilders trader and may offer commercial services to other users
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DarrenW
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| posted on 30/7/07 at 12:22 PM |
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Ref the Chinese sourcing of some parts. I work for a large chinese automotive component manufacturer as their European Project Manager. It is true
that some Chinese companies will produce and supply what they can get away with but from first hand experience there are some companies out there that
do operate to strict control procedures. I often recieve comments from my customers that their European suppliers struggle to achieve the same
standards that we do as a matter of course.
Im not saying by the way that mistakes dont happen, we all understand that they do in any industry. Im just keen to point out that just because
products are made in a low cost economy it does not mean they are automatically low quality.
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Syd Bridge
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| posted on 30/7/07 at 03:59 PM |
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I wasn't saying that a certificate from STATUS was mandatory. It's just that I know STATUS was set up to specifically help the kit
industry, and still does so.
Any test to SAE standards would be acceptable anywhere.
I wouldn't put a non tested ali casting on a car for myself, nor anyone else. I most certainly wouldn't sell them as road suitable, if the
test certificates were not to hand.
Mr.Elderfield, as a responsible retailer, is probably undertaking that testing and certification as you read this, and will provide same
'Tested and Certified For Road Use' when he has it.
Until then, ALL of these ali castings should be considered 'For Off Road Use Only'.
No certificate, not proven safe for road use.
When SVA and MOT take the insurers lead, you WILL be asked for proof of fitness for purpose.
Act responsibly, and get on top of the situation NOW, before the draconian Aus building system comes in. It's a lot closer than you may want.
Cheers,
Syd.
[Edited on 30/7/07 by Syd Bridge]
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