David Jenkins
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| posted on 13/6/11 at 09:09 PM |
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Terry Pratchett programme about Dignitas
Did anyone else watch it?
It was very well produced, but agony to watch. 
It's a shame that it can't be done legally in this country, and that anyone who accompanies the patient to Switzerland is liable to
prosecution when they return (assisting with a suicide).
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Kwik
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| posted on 13/6/11 at 09:23 PM |
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i watched about 40 minutes of it, i agree, very well produced.
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designer
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| posted on 13/6/11 at 09:30 PM |
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It will come eventually.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 07:37 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
It's a shame that it can't be done legally in this country, and that anyone who accompanies the patient to Switzerland is liable to
prosecution when they return (assisting with a suicide).
I've wondered about this, I know of people who actually have been arrested for this too, but for some reason I can go to America, buy a handgun,
fire it off and have the pictures/video in my pocket but I won't be arrested for illegal use of a firearm... How's it different?
Haven't watched it yet, but will do
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Dick Axtell
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 08:32 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
Today's statistic: 6 out of 7 dwarves aren't happy.
IIRC only one was Grumpy.
Re: Terry Pratchett prog -
Alzheimers has been very close familywise, so we might watch on call-back, if I can persuade SWMBO.
Work-in-Progress: Changed to Zetec + T9. Still trying!!
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swanny
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 08:38 AM |
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very moving to watch. still dont know what i'd do in that position.
having just watched my mum die with parkinsons after two years in a nursing home, last year and a half unable to do anything including speak and just
communicate via blinking i would have thought i'd be all in favour.
but when doctors suggested removing her care it was still very tricky. you still know that a person who is fully compus mentis is effectively being
killed. even though mum supported the decision its a very hard thing.
the difficulty with the dignitas approach is that someone has to be well enough to swallow the liquid themselves, this seems to mean that people have
to go much too early IMHO rather than risk not being able to go at all and being trapped inside a knackered body.
doctors ultimately seems sensible, but i'm not sure i'd ever want to get to the point mum was at, it was inhumane, and as was mentioned
last night by that amazing couple, you wouldnt let a dog suffer in that way. something we'd said many times about mum.
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house19uk
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 12:02 PM |
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Have yet to watch the programe but having watched my mother suffer from the effects of Alzheimers for nearly 10+ years now given the oppertunity I
would not hesitate to put her out of her missery. She is constantly upset and scared like a frightend child she has no knowledge of any of her family
or any one else for that matter, she has to be spoon fed like a baby and wear nappies.
Alzheimers is the most cruel disease there is as it takes away the person that was once there and replaces it with nothing. Since being diagnosed she
has had cancer among other things all of which she has been treated for and made a full recovery from but in all honesty for what she has no quality
of life mearly a scared and frightend existance.
Many years ago when she was in one of her more lucid days she asked me to get some tablets so she could take her own life much to my regrett I could
not do it she beg me but said she understood why. In less than 12 weeks of that day I had my last ever proper conversation with the her as the
disease finally destroyed enough of her brain that she can no longer hold a proper conversation, that was 9 yeasr ago.
Its been said many times before but if she were an animal you would not hesitate to end her life and put her out of her misery, in fact if you did not
you would be done for crulety to animals. Why then are we so different? Why should we suffer? She would not want us to thats for sure and would
welciome death as opposed to life now as I have already said.
What we need for situations like this is some sort of living will I for one would want some to end my life if I was suffering in the way she is. How
many grave stones state that some one like my mum lived to a good old age but dont refer to the 10+ years of suffering they and there loved ones went
through not to mention the finacial strain.
Sorry to go on guys but it is something that is always looming over me like a dark cloud. Need to get in the garage and work on the locost
now...............
[Edited on 14/6/11 by house19uk]
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scootz
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 01:49 PM |
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I really feel for you guys. The possibility of someone you love no longer recognising you just doesn't bear thinking about!
I strongly feel that if someone wants to end their own life due to irreparable and degenerative disability then they should be allowed to do so in the
most dignified of ways... peacefully, at home or in a clinic, and surrounded by people who care.
That said, it's quite common for like-minded people to change their mind when they actually do find themselves in a severely disabled condition.
A point in case was the recent documentary that featured a biker who was paralyzed and was being kept aive by ventilator and feeding tube. He had
apparently said all his days that he would like to die if he ever found himself in a vegetative condition and after the accident his family were
prepared to tell the medical team to take him off the ventilator and to stop feeding him as that would have been his wish... but then they discovered
he had eye-movement. They then established a means of communication... move eyes left for yes and right for no. He has since been repeatedly asked
if he would like the doctors to withhold his treatment and he constantly indicates 'no' even though he's been told that his
condition will never improve.
So I guess you have to be sure in each and every case and unfortunately with conditions like alzheimers, it's often too late for the person
themselves to be a part of the decision making. It's done for them because we think it's what's they would want and we think
it's for the best. But we obviously have no absolute means of establishing it.
Tough tough call, and one that I hope I will never have to make in my lifetime!
It's Evolution Baby!
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 06:01 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dick Axtell
Re: Terry Pratchett prog -
Alzheimers has been very close familywise, so we might watch on call-back, if I can persuade SWMBO.
Be warned that watching it is a VERY painful and emotional experience...
Probably the worst part for Terry P is when he realised that he probably wouldn't be able to use the service himself - their most important rule
is that the person has to be totally switched on mentally, totally clear about what he/she was about to do, and able to lift the glass unaided. In
other words, it has to be the person's own action entirely. By the time he needed the service he would be unfit to do it. If he wanted to do it
would have to be when he still had a clear mind, and the tipping point for Alzheimers can be very sudden - one day fully in control, next day a lost
soul. He would have to give up while still able to work and live his life. Tough call.
I had to watch my step-mother go through Alzheimers...
[Edited on 14/6/11 by David Jenkins]
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 06:55 PM |
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It was a very tastefully and compasionately produced program.
Whether it is legal or not the decision to assist someone you love, if that is what they want and assuming that they can make a rational decision,
depends solely on the degree of that love.
I watched my wife of 37 years die of kidney cancer.
We had discussed the options when we first learned of her condition.
She did not want me to do anything, as I would get into trouble with the law. I promised her that she would not suffer, as this is a particularly
nasty, very agressive form of cancer that had already spread to her bones.
I told my sons what I was going to do and if they wanted to 'shop me' after, well I was cool with that too.
The killer was one night when she would not go to sleep (at the time I had not had any sleep for three days). I asked her what was the matter and she
replied that she was scared of me, as she thought that I wanted to kill her. I can not begin to tell you how that felt. That fortunately was only one
night.
So my heart goers out to anyone with a loved one in this condition, it shreds your soul.
As luck - if you can call it that - would have it, the cancer spread to her brain and all the pain disapeared and she was lucid and comfortable.
Finally two days later she started to shut down totally and slid away quite serenely.
However had that not happened, I would have eased her on her way and happily took the consequences. simply because I loved her more than my own
life.
Trouble is, three years on next month and I still do.
My point however, is that you have to do what you feel is right, but don't blame a judge for doing the same.
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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norfolkluego
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 07:32 PM |
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That was painful to read let alone go through
quote:
Originally posted by Confused but excited.
It was a very tastefully and compasionately produced program.
Whether it is legal or not the decision to assist someone you love, if that is what they want and assuming that they can make a rational decision,
depends solely on the degree of that love.
I watched my wife of 37 years die of kidney cancer.
We had discussed the options when we first learned of her condition.
She did not want me to do anything, as I would get into trouble with the law. I promised her that she would not suffer, as this is a particularly
nasty, very agressive form of cancer that had already spread to her bones.
I told my sons what I was going to do and if they wanted to 'shop me' after, well I was cool with that too.
The killer was one night when she would not go to sleep (at the time I had not had any sleep for three days). I asked her what was the matter and she
replied that she was scared of me, as she thought that I wanted to kill her. I can not begin to tell you how that felt. That fortunately was only one
night.
So my heart goers out to anyone with a loved one in this condition, it shreds your soul.
As luck - if you can call it that - would have it, the cancer spread to her brain and all the pain disapeared and she was lucid and comfortable.
Finally two days later she started to shut down totally and slid away quite serenely.
However had that not happened, I would have eased her on her way and happily took the consequences. simply because I loved her more than my own
life.
Trouble is, three years on next month and I still do.
My point however, is that you have to do what you feel is right, but don't blame a judge for doing the same.
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scootz
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| posted on 14/6/11 at 08:31 PM |
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Just watched it on the iPlayer... very moving.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 16/6/11 at 06:18 PM |
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Nothing more to say really, although I wonder why they let through the 20% who don't have any terminal illness and are just sick of living... I
went through that for quite a few years and, well I don't think that should be allowed. By all means when I get to the point where I
can't look after myself take me out back and shoot me but... Tired of life?
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 16/6/11 at 06:22 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Nothing more to say really, although I wonder why they let through the 20% who don't have any terminal illness and are just sick of living...
I was also concerned about that - terminal illness is one thing, depression or 'loss of will to live' is another. Although if those people
were elderly I could possibly understand it, as I've spoken to a few of my aged relatives who have said "I've had enough
now...".
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 16/6/11 at 06:26 PM |
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True it would have been better to split it into ages, I imagined a bunch of emo gits in their late teens...
As Captain Hook said "To die is the only adventure I have left"
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