Padstar
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 01:11 PM |
|
|
Friendly Advice Needed
Some advice please if i may.
I spent last winter fabricating a Haynes Roadster chassis based on the MX5 donor. With a 95% complete frame i decided that i would opt to grind down
and get a professional welder to go over the joints as i was slightly concerned with the quality of my workmanship on the welds.
Local welders all seem to want £300+ and then the same again for a cage to be fabricated.
This got me thinking. Whilst i have thoroughly enjoyed what has been done to date am i best now suited to going for an actual manufactured kit (MK or
similar). The winters work has shown me that i have the skills that i would need to build a car through to finish but my chain of thought is that i
would have to outlay the guts of £600 to complete the chassis with roll cage if opting for a pro to complete. This would go a long way towards a
factory suplied frame from one of the kit supliers. Would the quality and ride of a MK or similar be superior to that of a HR?
In short am i best cashing in what i can for the bits done to date to put towards a starter kit or chassis from a recognised suplier or pursevering
with the HR. Some may say this is giving up but i am thinking about the bigger picture of the final product before i invest more money into the Haynes
option.
What do you think and if a kit suplier is the way forward which generally is the prefered. I would still want to complete on a budget but with end
performance more in mind rather than just pure cost savings.
Any help and advice would be much appreciated.
[Edited on 31/7/14 by Padstar]
|
|
|
|
|
coozer
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 01:27 PM |
|
|
Hmm, strange one, what exactly is wrong with your welding? is it really bad or are you just not happy and therefore apprehensive of the frame?
Got any pics of the frame and your workmanship?
Why not get a ready built Haynes frame and carry on from there if your not happy with yours?
What welder have you got? The better the welder the better the weld generally. What I mean is its easier fro a learner ot get good welds with a decent
welder. I was never very happy with what I got from a Clarke 150 yet moving to a Portamig everything became clear, easier and better results.
Good luck,
Steve
1972 V8 Jago
1980 Z750
|
|
|
Ben_Copeland
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 01:53 PM |
|
|
As Steve hinted. Why not just practice more and get better at welding. The Haynes chassis is just as good as MK, etc
Even if your not happy with the welds, grind them back and redo. £300 for welding is crazy.
Cage wise, get the tubes bent and weld it all in yourself after you've practiced more.
Ben
Locost Map on Google Maps
Z20LET Astra Turbo, into a Haynes
Roadster
Enter Your Details Here
http://www.facebook.com/EquinoxProducts for all your bodywork needs!
|
|
|
Padstar
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 02:23 PM |
|
|
I am using a Clarke 150 welder. I had a few negative comments on the welds and being a beginner would be happy with it on non structural/chassis
parts.
If the HR chassis is as good as any then maybe best stick to it.
What would you say is a reasonable price to pay for someone to go over all of the joints?
|
|
|
DW100
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 02:45 PM |
|
|
Maybe a welding course at the local college may be the way to go?
|
|
|
Irony
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 02:51 PM |
|
|
I bet for £300 you could go on a welding course and learn to do the job yourself. Or find a local friendly welder to teach you. Thats what I'd
do, then you'd have the skills to last you forever. For me the building of my kit car has been just as much about the car as obtaining the
skills to build it. I think I have learned more building mine than I did when I did a degree. The degree also cost more.
I also know where your coming from as I have completely built my engine myself from cobbled together sources both new and secondhand. I started it
for the first time a month ago and its not running right, I am constantly fretting about it in case I have bolted something on upside down etc etc
etc. Or its going to overheat, or the valves will clash, or the timings wrong, or I built the heads wrong, or the oil ways are not working correctly,
the clutch won't work etc etc etc etc. Part of me wishes I just bought a built engine, but then again if it went wrong I wouldn't have a
clue!
|
|
|
Padstar
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 02:52 PM |
|
|
I looked into this before I started but there were no evening courses to be found in Croydon so I went from the basic level I had been taught from
school. I think it's ok just not very prity. My only concern was for the chassis being a fundamental
|
|
|
Slimy38
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 03:06 PM |
|
|
No guarantee a bad looking weld is actually structurally unsound, conversely you can have really good welds that have no penetration. I've done
MIG welds that are on a par with top end TIG welds in terms of looks (in my opinion  ), only to find that I had zero penetration and they just
snapped off!!
£300 buys you a lot of scrap metal with which to practise and get good. It even buys a couple of train tickets or a bit of petrol money for someone on
here to pay you a visit and give you some pointers.
|
|
|
Wheels244
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 04:58 PM |
|
|
If you do all the prep, bring it up to me I'll buzz it up for you FOC.
Might be a bit far to travel, but the offer is there.
Rob
Build Blog: http://wheels244.wordpress.com/
|
|
|
Padstar
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 05:07 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the offer!
I think I will go with a bit more practice on scrap and post some pics showing penetration for comments.
Out of interest how long would it take a component welder to run round the entire chassis?
|
|
|
tegwin
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 05:35 PM |
|
|
To be quite honest with you. Having a decent welder will improve your welds no end.
Spend £300 on a proper mig welder with a decent wire feed system and a decent gas supply and I imagine the quality of your welds will magically
improve.
I started on a clarke 150 and it was fine for 1-2mm sheet but it was carp at anything else.. I now have a cebora machine and its lush... I think I
paid £200 odd quid for it second hand
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
|
|
|
bi22le
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 05:38 PM |
|
|
After all of the hours I have spent reading on this forum I think there are two types of people on here.
1) the makers - they enjoy the idea of making something from scratch. They want and enjoy the journey of making a car from scratch. Sure they will
drive their car after but almost for them the journey is finished and a new hobby is needed.
2) the driver - they can and do make stuff and will also enjoy it bit for them is the driving that counts. The track days, the week long trips and
the bhp chasers.
I am number two which is why I will never want to build a chassis. I would fabricate many parts for one though.
What one are you?
if you want to hurry up and drive it then take the fastest and easiest route to get on the road. If it's all about the build then take a
welding course and do it yourself.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
|
|
|
Wheels244
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 06:04 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by tegwin
To be quite honest with you. Having a decent welder will improve your welds no end.
Spend £300 on a proper mig welder with a decent wire feed system and a decent gas supply and I imagine the quality of your welds will magically
improve.
I started on a clarke 150 and it was fine for 1-2mm sheet but it was carp at anything else.. I now have a cebora machine and its lush... I think I
paid £200 odd quid for it second hand
Sound advice.
I've got a 210 amp and it welds really well.
Steer clear of the gasless ones - they produce very dirt welds with lots of spatter - ok for using outside where the shielding gas might get blown
away, but that's the only time I'd use one.
Rob
Build Blog: http://wheels244.wordpress.com/
|
|
|
Wheels244
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 06:07 PM |
|
|
quote:
Originally posted by Padstar
Thanks for the offer!
I think I will go with a bit more practice on scrap and post some pics showing penetration for comments.
Out of interest how long would it take a component welder to run round the entire chassis?
If you've done all the prep and it was just a case of putting the earth clamp on and start welding it would take me less than 2 hours I
think.
Rob
Build Blog: http://wheels244.wordpress.com/
|
|
|
snakebelly
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 08:48 PM |
|
|
and if wheels is too far, I could do the same, I'm in Shropshire, just bung a few quid in the gas jar and make the coffee! As said having a good
welder makes all the difference.
|
|
|
Barkalarr
|
| posted on 31/7/14 at 09:22 PM |
|
|
I'd be tempted to buy the mk Indy which is currently on pistonheads for £2495.
It's already been IVA'd - just pull it to bits and give it a good clean up.
It says there's some chassis welding required - the benefit is that you can get a new bit of chassis rail from Danny and make it good again.
This advert is NTDWM but it's a bloody cheap purchase IMO.
|
|
|
907
|
| posted on 1/8/14 at 12:26 AM |
|
|
Hi All,
If I may I'd like to give a "professional" opinion on a couple of points that come up in this thread.
Firstly, I would expect welding re-work to take longer than welding from the tacked stage did.
Many times on here we have all seen the phrase, "measure twice & cut once."
Well in fabrication there's another phrase, "the quickest way to do anything is to do it right."
Secondly, it's impossible to weld anything without some degree of distortion, shrinkage, twisting or "banana'ing",
so I would expect any original stress and misalignment could only increase when re-worked.
Much of this could be prevented by clamping bars on the back of weld areas, possibly to the point of packing strips
strategically placed so any bend was clamped out before the second welds were done, but then we are back to my
first point of re-working takes longer.
Just my 2p ( when I started welding it would have been my 2d  )
Paul G
|
|
|
