Mr Whippy
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| posted on 3/7/16 at 07:49 PM |
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Advice regarding an engine sale faulty Engine
Hi I'm after some advice regarding an engine I sold on eBay. It's a 2.8 v6 from a Capri I used in my JBA falcon.
It's been stored in my garage with all ports plugged, oil in the bores. So it then gets sold on eBay and before I sent it I drained the oil and
turned it over by hand to check the compression was being built up and everything was just fine. Friends gave me a hand at the time when we were
putting it on the pallet so can vouch that the engine had no issues.
The money goes through and about a month on I get an email saying his mechanic says the engine is no good so I spoke to the guy who unfortunately does
not know much about cars but the gist I get is the oils become emulsified with water and is now knocking. Now several things seem clear...
1) the engine wasn't seized
2) the engine was running
3) it's probably blown one of the head gaskets
So as far as I am concerned this was a running engine sold as seen and the mechanic has done it wrong, not bled it properly, maybe even had the heads
of and not followed the correct procedure etc. If it was to buy an engine from anywhere and fit it myself I would not expect to then get any guarantee
if it then goes wrong and I have no control over the competence of someones mechanic or whatever happens to an engine after I've sold.
I feel sorry for the guys misfortune but fail to see how I am liable for any costs.
What do you think?
[Edited on 3/7/16 by Mr Whippy]
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 3/7/16 at 08:00 PM |
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As its a private sale there shouldn't be any comeback but if he bought it through e/bay and paid by PayPal he may have some redress how did you
word the advert sold as seen ? No warranty ? Spares or repair how long was the engine stored for ?
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gremlin1234
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| posted on 3/7/16 at 08:19 PM |
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its a private sale, and you offered no guarantee.
I sold an engine once, buyer came back that it was 'bad' ( he was only about mile away, so I looked at it) and having re-set the timing it
did magically seem to work properly. he was embarrassed. strangely he also had clutch issues, again user too stupid.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 3/7/16 at 08:32 PM |
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I offered no guarantees or warranty and described it correctly with plenty of photos. My adverts wording was -
A rare great engine. A reconditioned unit which originally came out a Capri that had bodywork that could not be saved, spent a couple of years in a
kit car before being put aside to go into a Landrover however the adaptor kit to do this has been impossible to track down so reluctantly decided to
sell the engine.
Very strong engine which sounded amazing (twin side exhausts) was fitted with a Weber twin choke carb at the time (sorry sold that). In this form it
is about 140bhp. Standard electronic ignition dizzy and supplied with ignition unit for it. I have the flywheel which needs a scrub down. Exhaust
manifolds are standard Capri.
Collection only but I have an engine crane to help.
He's listed costs back to me for the cost of the engine, labour and carriage, sorry he needs to take the matter up with his mechanic and get the
engine over to a machine shop to get it sorted and it's not my problem...
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ian locostzx9rc2
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| posted on 3/7/16 at 08:45 PM |
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Second hand engines are a risk you shouldn't be liable for anything it's at buyers risk.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 3/7/16 at 10:58 PM |
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What's even more concerning is that this the second replacement engine this mechanic has managed to not get running, come on these are easy
engine's to both check and install and is giving up on an engine that just seems to need a new gasket and an oil change. Not even sure
he's hooked up the oil pressure gauge output oil feed, that'll be the next thing...
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joneh
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 06:54 AM |
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I reckon the buyer has supplied a "working" engine to the mechanic and not wanted to pay for it to be serviced or checked over. So
he's just plonked it in.
Personally I wouldn't install a second hand engine without new gaskets, timing belts etc and full service....
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 07:18 AM |
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^ agreed
well here is my response I'm going to email back to him -
Hello $$$$$,
Since our call I have been speaking to a several friends, mostly car nuts like myself and they are also in agreement with the points below -
1) The engine was sold second hand as seen without warranty or guarantee
2) The engine was described accurately in the advert and during phone conversations with yourself.
3) It was sold at 1/5 the price of a reconditioned engine so should not be considered ready to fit without completely checking it, especially as it
had been stated that it was stored for some time.
4) It was however checked over by myself before sending by turning over by hand which showed it was not seized and it was building up cylinder
compression. The oil was drained just prior to sending which was clean and uncontaminated. It was well wrapped and all openings and ports had been
plugged since it was put into storage. I have witnesses who helped at the time who can verify that this is the case.
5) The engine was removed in a running condition from a car and put into storage in a garage for future use and not left outside.
6) You state that the engine was run by your mechanic so it was a running engine.
7) After it was started the oiled has subsequently become emulsified with water contamination which would indicate the engine has become over heated
and a head gasket or something similar has failed.
8) I have no control over any aspects of the installation or levels of competency of your mechanic to perform the installation. As such there can be
many causes that could result in a head gasket failure such as incorrect air bleeding of the cooling system, faulty radiator, incorrect cooling fan,
poor ignition timing, poor mixture setting, incorrect antifreeze ratio etc none of which I am liable to cover resulting cost for.
9) This is the third engine fitted to an old car that has become defective so I have no indication that there is not an underlying issue with this car
which is causing these engine failures.
If the engine has blown the head gasket this is a simple thing to replace and parts are available from Burton Power. If it is also knocking this may
indicate that at least one of the main bearings has become damaged through contaminated oil and requires replacement however this also indicates that
the engine was not shut down when the oil became contaminated and that oil pressure was not being monitored at the time which is basically neglect.
However, the bearings are also available from several companies’ such as Burton Power, Specialist engines & Cologne engines and given the general
condition of the engine is more than worth carrying out.
Personally I would not remove the engine form the car and instead change the oil and remove the coolant then do a compression test to determine which
head has the gasket failure. Then remove the head and replace the gasket (check that the head is not warped with a steel rule), flush the oil with
cheap oil several times. With the spark plugs removed turn the engine over on the starter motor till the oil pressure increases and check it is up to
factory limits (use a pressure gauge not a lamp) before trying to restart. If the oil pressure does not raise to factory limits it should not be run
until the main bearings have been inspected by an engine specialist company.
Note that this engine requires the head bolts retightened after it has been run for a couple of hours with no load otherwise the head gasket may blow
again.
Regards, Scott.
[Edited on 4/7/16 by Mr Whippy]
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 07:49 AM |
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I would send this as a message via ebay - if he does raise a claim against you then the ebay authorities can see your response.
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 07:54 AM |
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Caveat Emptor.
I purchased a GSXR750 engine, unseen, but described by the vendor as you have, the vendor being a well-known 'retailer' of motorcycle
engines. Engine arrived well wrapped on a pallet, so no immediate alarm bells. Upon inspection of the sump residue, I discover that the head
(internal) core plugs have popped, there's emulsified gunge in all the oilways and generally the engine isn't usable. I contact the vendor
in an open and professional way, but find no common ground for recompense, with final accusations of me having destroyed the engine.
I learnt a lesson here!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've recently sold 3 engines, all were beautiful creations, simply since I've changed power unit for the race cars. A very expensive race
engine went to a fellow competitor, with the trust and familiarity that all that entails, so no issues. The 2nd went to a chap who wanted to only
utilise the block and case in a race engine build, so there were no issues that would arise there.
The 3rd engine went to a chap that would only buy an engine that he had seen running. I therefore sold it after we had run it up in the car, it was
then removed while warm and he took it all away. This is a great way to buy/sell an engine, there really is no comeback. It's a lot of work to
do all this though, just to see an empty engine bay, when ideally I wanted to sell the car as a running entity. This winter I'll put the final
engine in the car and do the same thing, unless someone wishes to take the car/engine away engineless or with engine. Anything for anyone that
isn't a timewaster, so rare these days.
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Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 07:56 AM |
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Have you actually got any proof the engine has failed? could just be a chancer.
Its sold as seen, he has no come back. Personally, I'd just send him a quick message back saying it was fine when taken away, and you hope he
gets it sorted. Nothing to do with you!
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tegwin
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 08:03 AM |
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I agree with the above...
You are being far to nice. The engine was sold as seen, he could have inspected it before installation instead decided to use it untested. The
responsibility is his, you should have no further involvement and most definitely should not feel responsible of loose sleep over it.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would the last person who leaves the country please switch off the lights and close the door!
www.verticalhorizonsmedia.tv
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 08:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
Have you actually got any proof the engine has failed? could just be a chancer.
Its sold as seen, he has no come back. Personally, I'd just send him a quick message back saying it was fine when taken away, and you hope he
gets it sorted. Nothing to do with you!
hard to say tbh but general impression I get is the guy is genuine, I did ask what colour the engine was just to make sure the mechanic wasn't
pulling a fast one on him.
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Norfolkluegojnr
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 08:29 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Whippy
quote:
Originally posted by Norfolkluegojnr
Have you actually got any proof the engine has failed? could just be a chancer.
Its sold as seen, he has no come back. Personally, I'd just send him a quick message back saying it was fine when taken away, and you hope he
gets it sorted. Nothing to do with you!
hard to say tbh but general impression I get is the guy is genuine, I did ask what colour the engine was just to make sure the mechanic wasn't
pulling a fast one on him.
Doesnt really make any difference, its always just interesting to know. Nothing worse than feeling you've been had.
Either way, make sure you don't accept any liability via email or otherwise - his only recourse would be small claims court, which I very much
doubt would happen with the value of the engine.
Chalk it up, and move on. 
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r1_pete
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 08:31 AM |
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I recon the mechanic is either incompetent, or a chancer trying to squeeze more money out of this individual.
The problem is, if he raises a Paypal claim, they do tend to favor the purchaser, however I think his time limit may be up on that one, as IIRC he has
to do it within 30 days.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 09:17 AM |
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yeah the money went through ages ago so I don't think this any longer a paypal issue
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Irony
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 09:26 AM |
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I think a lot of engines get bought on eBay by people who have no idea about engineering but consider themselves 'car people' with the
intent to install it. But they have no idea what it means to put a different engine in a car.
I had a mate who bought a VW R32 engine to go in his old Scirroco. I told him not to do it but he said he had a mate who could 'bung it
in'. Between them they didn't even know that the gearboxes wouldn't mate. The mate took a great car and ripped the engine out,
they sold it on eBay. Then realised they needed all sort of components to fit the R32. Car sat engineless for 8 months and then was sold on ebay
without a engine. Money lost all round.
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nick205
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| posted on 4/7/16 at 03:41 PM |
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Seems to be a chancer to me!
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