hi everyone 
looking into getting my 4age striker set up in essex, been looking into rolling roads does anyone have anything to say about atspeed in rayleigh ?
have been reading stuff on here and they sound like they have a good reputation............anyone used them ?
any info about local rolling roads near chelmsford ?
many thanks
striker-4age
they did a good job on my car on the previous engine. what ecu is it running. they tend to favour omex but will do others unless its a megasquirt running a turbo lump.
Where a bouts in Essex are you, can recommend some people etc, also I have a striker and would love to catch up as I'm only in Essex too,
Thanks
Sean
hi there
sean i am in chelmsford where are you mate ?
it is running a emerald ecu m3d, bike throttle boddies gsxr and a 4age 1.6 16v, it starts and runs but i stinks like it is over fuelling so i want to
get the map check/redone as i think it is just a base map to get her going
striker-4age
Do a search on atspeed on here. Some people have had some good experiences, one had an issue due to them locking the map they'd done so it couldn't be altered except by them - which meant another rolling road would have to do a full set up instead of a little tweek. They posted on the thread and explained their approach.
Hi I'm in Finchingfield near dunmow,
You also have redline racing in basildon,
Tcs in stansted,
Both very good,
Heard good things about Peter Baldwin at Wilshers Garages near Cambridge (not too too far for you).
P.S. INDY BIRD, must be fun in the kit in the summer playing 'dodge the lairy biker' on any sunny Sunday round your way!
quote:
Originally posted by flibble
Heard good things about Peter Baldwin at Wilshers Garages near Cambridge (not too too far for you).
P.S. INDY BIRD, must be fun in the kit in the summer playing 'dodge the lairy biker' on any sunny Sunday round your way!
hi everyone
it runs the older m3d ecu, it dont have a lambda sensor 
it does run but stinks of fuel, and once it has been running for a little while it dont
like to rev to high ???
looks like it is a trip to atspeed then, what are the prices like at tcs stansted ?
what should i be paying for insurance ??? and how many miles should i go for ??
what are the insurance companys you guys are using ?
many thanks
striker-4age
Speak to Tom at tcs tell him I recommended to you,
Last time I had mine set up it was about £100 cheap in my book, but I would say allow about £150 if it's really bad as will be a couple of hours
I would have thought?
Good luck,
Sean
hi again sean
just emailed him so will let you know what the outcome is...........tcs or atspeed
now the weather is getting nicer i really need to get this thing on the road
insurance next
thanks
striker-4age
If you need his mobile u2u me I'll reply, tcs Tom is good not the most glamourous of buildings but he is good, does amazing work on skylines,
Hope to see you on road soon then or track?
Thanks Sean
Track and Road ? In Rainham I think - went there a few years ago with my single seater (Emerald on R1) - miles from home for me!
I had a nightmare time with ATSpeed. I paid them to strip the bike carbs, rebuild them and set up on rolling road. I had been using the carbs on my
previous engine for about 18 months, and decided they needed a re-fresh before using on my new engine.
Car ran like a bag of s**t when I got it back. They blamed everyone but themselves, - first they said faulty plugs (3 sets), plug leads (2 sets)
faulty ignition module (changed twice) even told me my engine was no good - it was a brand new Zetec still in the ford crate! When I took the plugs
out NO1 cylinder was litteraly awash with fuel, and No4 was bone dry.
After many phone calls and letters I decided to strip the carbs and start again. Mixture screw on No 4 was hanging on the last thread, while No 1 was
screwed in tight - so much for stripping and rebuilding. After doing the carbs myself the car ran like a dream for the next year until I sold it -
never missed beat.
I eventually got a full refund, and costs - but it was a battle.
quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Do a search on atspeed on here. Some people have had some good experiences, one had an issue due to them locking the map they'd done so it couldn't be altered except by them - which meant another rolling road would have to do a full set up instead of a little tweek. They posted on the thread and explained their approach.
From what I've seen at Atspeed, they set the mixtures and ignition for their own peace of mind, not max power or economy.
Won't map an engine leaner than 13.7:1, when most race engines properly built need to run much leaner to get power and proper burn at max
revs.
Tom Airey is the best, but he doesn't do efi mapping.
Cheers,
Nev.
I am also thinking of getting my car set up and mapped in the near future.
I contacted ATspeed for a quote, I am glad I was sitting down when I read the U2U.
Geometry check and set up - £250-£400
Remap (Due to new trumpets) - £315-£405.
Thats ex VAT. Between £565-£805. I was expecting around £400 for both, but hoping for £300!
I obviously have noted jumped at the quote so will be interested how this topic pans out.
quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
From what I've seen at Atspeed, they set the mixtures and ignition for their own peace of mind, not max power or economy.
Won't map an engine leaner than 13.7:1, when most race engines properly built need to run much leaner to get power and proper burn at max revs.
Tom Airey is the best, but he doesn't do efi mapping.
Cheers,
Nev.
quote:
I am also thinking of getting my car set up and mapped in the near future.
I contacted ATspeed for a quote, I am glad I was sitting down when I read the U2U.
Geometry check and set up - £250-£400
Remap (Due to new trumpets) - £315-£405.
Thats ex VAT. Between £565-£805. I was expecting around £400 for both, but hoping for £300!
I obviously have noted jumped at the quote so will be interested how this topic pans out.
hi everyone
sean i have had a reply from tom at tcs, so i am hopefully............ fingers crossed
many thanks to all the replys
nev why wont tom do efi mapping ?
many thanks
striker-4age
agree Jeff......Wayne, i would imagine Atspeed have come up with a worse case scenario cost wise....i swear by the 2 Steves at Track n Road and the first full map i had was about £400, would have been a fair bit less if they hadnt had to tweak so many variables/settings due to the nature of teh engine. But i'd still expect £300 ish for a map session that is fairly straightforward....
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Would you expected a company mapping road cars to not be prudent with their mapping? I'm sure if you indemnify them they would map you a race engine.
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
I am also thinking of getting my car set up and mapped in the near future.
I contacted ATspeed for a quote, I am glad I was sitting down when I read the U2U.
Geometry check and set up - £250-£400
Remap (Due to new trumpets) - £315-£405.
Thats ex VAT. Between £565-£805. I was expecting around £400 for both, but hoping for £300!
I obviously have noted jumped at the quote so will be interested how this topic pans out.
You where seriously expecting a map and geometry setup for £300? Atspeed (if memory servers) charge £80 per hour for mapping, so they have given you worse case scenario and it may only take a few hours.
They are quoting you a complete remap ie worse case...
quote:
Originally posted by FazerBob
I had a nightmare time with ATSpeed. I paid them to strip the bike carbs, rebuild them and set up on rolling road. I had been using the carbs on my previous engine for about 18 months, and decided they needed a re-fresh before using on my new engine.
Car ran like a bag of s**t when I got it back. They blamed everyone but themselves, - first they said faulty plugs (3 sets), plug leads (2 sets) faulty ignition module (changed twice) even told me my engine was no good - it was a brand new Zetec still in the ford crate! When I took the plugs out NO1 cylinder was litteraly awash with fuel, and No4 was bone dry.
After many phone calls and letters I decided to strip the carbs and start again. Mixture screw on No 4 was hanging on the last thread, while No 1 was screwed in tight - so much for stripping and rebuilding. After doing the carbs myself the car ran like a dream for the next year until I sold it - never missed beat.
I eventually got a full refund, and costs - but it was a battle.
To answer some of the other comments regarding the prices we charge.
We have, I would think, at least £100,000 pounds worth of equipment and tools here at Atspeed to enable us to do a good job. this has to be paid for.
If you wanted to buy good quality oats for your thoroughbred horse you would expect to pay a good price, however, if you wanted oats that had already
been through the horse, the price would be less...wouldnt it.
Regarding the set up on a car. The digital scales cost me over a £1000.00..the caster and camber kit cost me over £500.00, tracking bar cost me over
£500.00, who do you think pays for this and its running cost, the tooth fairy!? we charge a minimum charge for use of this equipment, + our hourly
rate.
We dont just shove the car on the scales adjust the geo/tracking and throw the car out. The car is centre lined to make sure the axle is square in the
car, the car is C/W then the geo is adjusted along the wheel toe, then car is C/W again to make sure it is correct. We road test and then reset the
toe. This is what you pay for. This takes time (sometimes multiple days), and time has to be paid for. If you wanted the job cheaper, there are fast
fit centres across the country that would happily take your money, but they wouldnt do half the work that we would.
Carb tuning or EFI tuning.
How can we price a job over the phone? We have to give a good indictation of costing by poor examples we have had turn up, with comments like "it
runs all ok, just need a little trimming" five hours later we sorted all the problems out!! 90% of cars need basic work before we even get the
car on the rollers. We charge to do the job correctly. We do not just shove a couple of jets in your car to make it rich enough, we calibrate it and
EFI tuning is done calibrating a PROPER map not something a child would do, like we have seen countless times. This is why race teams and engine
builders use us and not others. Omex have used our maps for start up. Doing a job properly takes time, and we charge for our time.
The comment regarding AFR ratio.
We calibrate the car to run on wide open throttle to full power, if this is at 13:1 then that is where the car wants. If this power is made at a
number higher than 13.0 then the answer is likely no (infact most engines make maximum power far richer). It is SO easy when you are on the keyboard
sat at your desk to say this and say that, I would do this and I would do that. However when you have someones hard earnt money sitting at full
thottle screaming like a banshee and you say.."run it leaner...run it leaner..look more power more power..bang!!! Oh dear...sorry about that,
here is a shovel and a dustbin for you." We have to make sure the engine is safe with its mixture and ignition settings, and so it lasts the
entire race, not thirty seconds, if this means sacrificing BHP then so be it. Would you notice a couple of BHP down, I doupt it. Would you notice a
big hole in the piston or block?
We do many install power runs for many serious engine building companies, these cars would range from racing Ferraris to rally cars. These cars are
mapped by people that have been doing proper cars for many many years for manufacturers and works motorsport divisions. Never have we had one of these
cars that had an AFR on wide open throttle that was more than 13.0
Quality is appreciated long after the price is forgotten.
{Never have we had one of these cars that had an AFR on wide open throttle that was more than 13.0}
And from your statement above, you've never tried.
If you understood combustion dynamics, you'd know just why the leaner mixtures are needed.
Just seems odd to me, that you say 13.0 is the max, and another old boy who's been doing it all his life, goes straight for max lean, then
richens if it pings. He doesn't blow engines on his RR, so what are you doing to cause it?
Cheers,
Nev.
well good for you and good for him, thats why your his customer and not ours.
cant understand why anyone would go straight for lean and go richer. we start rich and go leaner. but ho hum each to their own. not critising him, hes
obviously good at his job, but we do it this way.
not all engines are the same, so to say a given "we wont go leaner than xxAFR" is not entirely true, from a broad view on typical engines
that are likely used on here (this forum), they either dont make power that lean OR wont reliably run that lean. We have around 40 years experience
specifically doing these kinds of engines, in many applications, from short circuit racing to competition and kit cars,with multiple race and
championship wins spanning decades.
we will continue to give the engines what they want, with back to back testing to prove its what it wants. not just a 10 second power pull, but
consistant power, over an entire race - e.g. not power that drops after after 3 laps.
we dont blow engines on our dyno, or on the road, or the track - where did we say this?
i think you are entirely missing the point on the work we do or who we do work for.. there is a reason. These are serious people, not joe bloggs,
these are people like Advanced Engine Research who run protoype race cars at sebring etc. Mountune etc. so it may indicate possibly we know one or two
things, which is why they use us.
I am more satisfied knowing the likes of these people know im doing a job correctly, rather than someone like yourself thinking im doing it
wrong.
again look at what the manufacturers are doing, they seldom get it wrong, extreme example look at honda civic type R, @ WOT this runs mixture down in
the 10s! lean it off and power drops, however - obviously we are talking about typical engines used on this forum - not some of the ultra modern lean
burn engines which are currently being developed which may run WOT @ 14.7 or leaner, but they are of course an entirely different kettle of fish than
say a pinto or a x-flow or a zetec etc.
[Edited on 14/3/12 by atspeed racing]
This is why I like Manufacturers, engine builders and real traders on a forum, especially like this one. It helps stop unjustified bad press and
govern the facts from fiction that this site is amazing at doing.
My hat is off to you AtSpeed and you have nothing but respect from me. The prices you provided were an estimate, worse case, from a 100 character U2U
so I understand your points. If you said £300 and it ended up £600 I would have felt robbed and lied to.
I am green to the kit car world so getting used to the idea that chassis straightness needs to be checked and things just come loose, that does not
happen with your average tin top.
If I find the money then you will be top of my list. I just don’t have the budget of professional race teams nor does my carer and livelihood depend
on it. I just want to check that my wheels are pointing in kind of the right direction and my engine is not self destructing due to me making things
because the wife is out!
Best of luck and let’s keep things pleasant peoples.
Wayne
quote:
Originally posted by bi22le
This is why I like Manufacturers, engine builders and real traders on a forum, especially like this one. It helps stop unjustified bad press and govern the facts from fiction that this site is amazing at doing.
My hat is off to you AtSpeed and you have nothing but respect from me. The prices you provided were an estimate, worse case, from a 100 character U2U so I understand your points. If you said £300 and it ended up £600 I would have felt robbed and lied to.
I am green to the kit car world so getting used to the idea that chassis straightness needs to be checked and things just come loose, that does not happen with your average tin top.
If I find the money then you will be top of my list. I just don’t have the budget of professional race teams nor does my carer and livelihood depend on it. I just want to check that my wheels are pointing in kind of the right direction and my engine is not self destructing due to me making things because the wife is out!
Best of luck and let’s keep things pleasant peoples.
Wayne
[we wont go leaner than 13.7 AFR" is not entirely true]
Very Much True!!!Words straight from the father's mouth, as I stood and listened.
Anyone on here been to Atspeed for tuning, and got a graph showing mixture leaner than 13.7? Please put said map here.
Nev.
Why would you want to melt your engine by running that lean??? I really don't understand why Nev, without OEM Knock sensors you will grenade the inside of the motor if anything changes (hi-temp, low fuel pressure etc) Makes no sense to me.
There are many, many efi engines running with narrow band sensors, which hunt either side of 14.7, and not a knock sensor in sight. Most wide bands
will be mapped by oem's to be well above 14.7 at light loads and cruising speeds.
Stoichiometric fuel ratio is no reason for detonation on its own. If ideal mixture causes detonation, then colder plugs and timing should cure it, all
depending on hot spots in the head itself, which can initiate burn well in advance of spark.
A rich mixture burns less quickly than an ideal, more like a whoomph than a boom, thus produces less power at high revs. All as evidenced on
power/mixture/revs data.
Nev.
quote:
Originally posted by greenwood03
agree Jeff......Wayne, i would imagine Atspeed have come up with a worse case scenario cost wise....i swear by the 2 Steves at Track n Road and the first full map i had was about £400, would have been a fair bit less if they hadnt had to tweak so many variables/settings due to the nature of teh engine. But i'd still expect £300 ish for a map session that is fairly straightforward....