Bored at looking for rubber for my kit now and need to make a decision
looking at a set of 185 60 13"s

Seemingly they are no longer a popular size and most places had no choice of makes or models (and none had one in stock...so I will be putting a fifth onto a spare wheel)

I have completely ruled out R888's and the Yoko's as they are just stupid prices when I have no intention of trackdays and a waste of sticky rubber when just pottering into work on sunny days or mile crunching to get to a show/meet or social

The Semperitts I was running on the 14"'s had silly thin sidewalls meaning a soft ish ride, but with LOTS of tyre side to side movement which I don't think I got along with

(I'm sure I have been labelled a rubber fetishist at most of the tyre places now as I seem obsessed that I don't end up with the same sidewall flex and have insisted that I touch and prod the sidewalls on the tyres before parting with any money)

A couple of places were quite obliging and managed to cop a feel of some Nexen CP641's in a different size but same profile which seemed to have fairly stiff sidewalls and the rubber on the tread seemed pretty soft like a pencil rubber (I left a finger nail mark in the tread when I prodded it)
I also managed to get a prod of the Champiro GT's again the sidewalls seemed stiff enough, but the tread rubber was not as soft as the Nexen's from what I can recall

Have compiled a list of what I can get hold of and am interested as to what others have used on your kit's and would recommend or ones to avoid

Regards
Rob

How wide are the rims to which these 185/60s are being fitted ?

You mention side to side movement as something with which you have an issue, I would suggest that the rim width will have an influence on this.

Have you already got 13" wheels?? To be honest, for the use you're talking about then you'd be better off with 15's with 195/50R15 tyres which are common and hence dirt cheap / huge range

Yokahama A539 tyres in 185/60/13 are quite reasonable tyres and cost between £40 to £45 each.

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Yokahama A539 tyres in 185/60/13 are quite reasonable tyres and cost between £40 to £45 each.

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The 13 wheels I have are 6" rims
I had considered the Yoko 539's, but I can get the others much much cheaper than that

Also putting A539 into Google pulled up a site where quite few chaps had run them and hated them (in the wet) but were happy with them in the dry and and another site where they are also described as being a bit "squirmy" in the dry (so assume they also have soft sidewalls?)

I could use my old 14" (5.5 wide) rims and possibly drop down a profile size to reduce the squirmy squishy cornering...but I want to use my 13"s now

Regards
Rob

Surely its the tyre pressure that stops the sidewalls from flexing?? I thought that all sidewalls were of the same thickness to comply with Type approval?

I fitted a set of Barum Brilliantis (175/60/13 fronts and 185/60/13 rears) on my Striker in southern France, having managed to wear down a fresh set of AO21Rs in 10 days', ahem, spirited driving around the Pyrennees on the se7ens list's Long Way to Le Mans tour in 2008.

They're not bad. They're just not very good. Hard as nails, and with all the grip of a block of very mature cheddar. I booted it away from the lights on the way back in Rouen and just sat there with the rear wheels spinning. No smoke, no black 11s, just a total absence of grip.

They're quite fun when rather than having slightly more power than grip you'd like to have a Biblical excess of power over grip (even if the car's powered by a lawn-mower engine).

I tried killing them at a sprint day at Waterbeach airfield. Not a chance. Spent all day driving sideways and running down the timed 1/4 mile - no discernible wear at the end of the day. After I swapped to AO21Rs, the quarter mile time went from 13.7 to 12.4 seconds.

And they weren't that cheap either. Not far off a set of 185/60/13 AO21Rs, although maybe that's just the prices charged by French tyre-floggers.

Anyway, they're great if you're heavily into hard-wearing tyres and a lack of grip. Other than that, they're not that great.

The Falkens are brill tyres on my tintop (grippy and last ages even with 300lbft of torque), but they are extremely hard wearing so probably wont offer much grip on a locost.

More Googling has turned this up, but cannot find anywhere else backing this up

"Falken ZE512 as a budget road legal track tyre, but they are really crap with very soft sidewalls and have developed a reputation for popping off rims under duress :shock: Avoid."

I did however find a few others saying very thin sidewalls on them ...like my Semperitts then??
(I should put them back on and video the comedy amount of side to side movement they allow when run between 16-20 PSI!)

Regards
Rob

My belief is that our type of car really is sensitive to getting the tyres right if getting the car working well is a priority.

I've tried these combinations.

15" rims with 195/50s. Far too much kick through the steering and the car was unresponsive and dull. Car was unpleasant on less then smooth road surfaces.

13" Rims with 205/60s, same as above only slightly less so.

13" rims with 185/60s. Much less unwelcome kick throught the steering and the suspension will work more accurately, you feel less of a passenger and can place the car where you want it. Car can still be provoked, but is much more controllable.

I've also tried the above in what might be called normal road tyres with rubber as hard as nails and also the rather wonderfull Yokohama A-032R. The sticky rubber and the lighter car just seemed to work so well together.

Should the current Sylva ever see the road again any time this centruy, it will be wearing Yokohamas in 185/60 at the very most.
Light cars and anything bigger than a 13" rim with the correct soft rubber is a lost opportunity.

We haven't even started on tyre pressures yet

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Originally posted by MakeEverything
Surely its the tyre pressure that stops the sidewalls from flexing?? I thought that all sidewalls were of the same thickness to comply with Type approval?

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Just to throw it in, at one place, where the fitters swore blind that whatever tyre I was replacing with would have the same amount of lateral flex in the sidewalls no matter what I replaced it with ...as long as the profile and pressure was the same...I was just about to walk out after our fruitless conversation when one chap who'd been waiting for service and obviously been listening said I may be better off trying some C rated tyres for a stiffer side wall if I had run out of ideas

I guess they would be thicker sidewalled, but would also be rock hard compound which wouldn't work on a lightweight car :-(

Still looking for negative comments on the Nexxen's, despite the Falkens being ahead in the poll

Regards
Rob

I /may/ have just been offered a set of (used but still legal as far as I can make out) Avon ACB10's in the right size and at an affordable price
Just not at all sure if they are right tyre for me?

Regards
Rob

ACB10's are no use whatsoever for what you have described.

They are super-sticky tyres that wear like soft-cheese and are hard-work unless you're on a mission...

Yup, further reading seems to suggest fine on track, but not the thing to get caught out in the wet with and really need to be driven hard to get them to work

I think I just need cheap and with less sidewall give than the semperits and will wear evenly and quite quickly

The internet is just chock full of reviews contradicting each other

I'm starting to wonder if tyre "batches" are completely different compounds or recipes each time they make them as some people are saying tyre make and model x has soft sidewalls and others saying not, likewise for tyre wear, some are saying they wear quite fast and others that they have lasted forever, despite the same brand/model being worn by what I would have thought were similar weighted cars and would assume being inflated to similar pressures so don't get why so many conflicting reviews

The more I look into what I need and can actually get at an affordable price the less I know what I should do :-(

Regards
Rob

www.blackcircles.com

have the yoko's for £46 each

What's your budget?

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Originally posted by robocog
Yup, further reading seems to suggest fine on track, but not the thing to get caught out in the wet with and really need to be driven hard to get them to work

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budget is flexible and based on value for money more than actual cost

From pricing them up locally - cheapest to most expensive

Can get the Nankangs for £24 a corner

Can get the Nexxen's for £25 a corner, which is as cheap as a cheap thing and can afford to replace them every year at that sort of price...but I suspect they will last a lot longer than the miles I will put in and don't know anyone else running them on a light car.

Can get the Falkens for £35 a corner, but having read they have floppy sidewalls and other things I have gleamed about them maybe not a contender

Can get the Champiro GT's for £38 a corner

Barum Brilliants were £52.35 a corner, but I think I should stay away from them based on others opinions and would rather not have a tyre that will outlast the car

A539's - didn't put them on the list due to what I had read, maybe I should not have?

If the above were not available I would be left with the choice between the more track based 888's or a048's, which with their much heftier price tag and supposedly much higher wear rate I guess I cannot justify if I'm going to be wasting rubber on motorway and traffic jam riddled slow commutes to work..unless I'm being totally paranoid about the wear rates and they would actually be good value for money?

eg is it a complete waste to have them on the car if the majority of the time I'm going to be just going on boring fast straight motorway and A roads to and from places of interest? with the possibility of the rare occasional corner that justifies a bit more grip

I would happily spend the £300-£400 on a set of the track day oriented tyres if I knew they would be just fine and dandy for 6k-8k (which would be 2 or 3 years of driving if the last few years of ownership is anything to go by) of mainly motorway or A road boringness

Are they likely to be long past their best much sooner than that? as I certainly cannot justify that sort of cost twice a year and would be classed as poor value for money!

Knocking a few tenths of a second off my commute to work or to get to a meet is less important than being caught out in the rain and being able to stop or turn- again this may be an over reaction, maybe the more track day oriented tyres are as good as if not better than the tyres I currently have had in the cold and wet anyway?

I did investigate some sticky Colways, but it appears they have long gone

Lots of you are voting for the Falkens??
I will have to try and get to fondle a set to see what the sidewalls are like

I do suspect that a lot of others are running a much lower profile tyre and not getting the "sidewall thing" which killed the sensation of being attached to the car

Regards
Rob

I have used A539s in the past and really liked them. They gripped well in the dry and were ok in the wet (but not great)
At 45 quid a corner, I'd go for these over the others you listed.

PS is it the 539s that the Locost racers use?

None of those tyres are suitable for a lightweight car, and the only one I'd consdier using on a tintop is the Falken.

All these tyres budget branded items with cheapness and life prioritised over grip, and on a lightweight car you really don't want this kind of compromise.

OK, so which ones are suitable?

what is the expected on road mileage from them with mr average behind the wheel?

Regards
Rob

[Edited on 1/4/10 by robocog]

Ive got A021Rs on my car at the moment, they grip well in the wet and get up to temp quickly in the dry but I dont think they are going to last many miles.
They can be obtained in 185/70/13 from George Polley tyres for about £45 each as they are a control tyres for stock cars.They also sell A539s as used in the Locost race series at a slightly lower cost.
Paul.

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Originally posted by robocog
OK, so which ones are suitable?

what is the expected on road mileage from them with mr average behind the wheel?

Regards
Rob

[Edited on 1/4/10 by robocog]

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