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another alignment question
tcr - 12/7/12 at 08:46 AM

after taking the car on the track yesterday it became obvious the alignment is out and wanted to know a good baseline setting to start from ?

loggyboy - 12/7/12 at 09:05 AM

basic tracking allignment?
Generall rule for RWD is 0 to 1 degree of toe in.

[Edited on 12/7/12 by loggyboy]

tcr - 12/7/12 at 09:10 AM

what about camber / castor ? all four wheels are adjustable. it handled like a dog and i know the tyres where partly to blame but even on the pic's you can see the alignment is out

[Edited on 12/7/12 by tcr]

chillis - 12/7/12 at 09:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
what about camber / castor ? all four wheels are adjustable. it handled like a dog and i know the tyres where partly to blame but even on the pic's you can see the alignment is out

[Edited on 12/7/12 by tcr]


Try 1.5 degrees rear camber with 10 minutes per side rear toe in and halve those numbers for the front with around 5 degrees of caster if you can get it.
Then refine from there.
Make a note of all your changes and what was better or worse, together with the track conditions, temperature etc, then you'll soon start to get an idea of what the car wants to make it work the way YOU want it to.
Record also your tyre pressures as that has a big influence on how the car feels on track. And yes decent tyres are crucial. no amount of adjustments to the alignment can overcome crap tyres but the right alignment will make them work the best they can.
HTH

[Edited on 12/7/12 by chillis]

coozer - 12/7/12 at 09:35 AM

Corner weighting will help as well.

tcr - 12/7/12 at 09:39 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Corner weighting will help as well.


yeah thought about that but struggling to find somewhere near to do it

MRLuke - 12/7/12 at 09:44 AM

A tiny bit of front toe out (max 3mm total) will improve turn in and steering response.

loggyboy - 12/7/12 at 10:06 AM

quote:
Originally posted by MRLuke
A tiny bit of front toe out (max 3mm total) will improve turn in and steering response.


3mm measured where? tracking should to be in degrees (or minutes if you can be accurate enough).

tcr - 12/7/12 at 10:11 AM

what does 10 minutes equate to in deg's ?

loggyboy - 12/7/12 at 10:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
what does 10 minutes equate to in deg's ?


1/6th of a degree, just like secs/minutes of a clock.

sprouts-car - 12/7/12 at 10:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
what does 10 minutes equate to in deg's ?


60 minutes = 1 degree,

so 10 minutes = 0.1667 degrees

damn too slow

[Edited on 12/7/12 by sprouts-car]

tcr - 12/7/12 at 10:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by tcr
what does 10 minutes equate to in deg's ?


1/6th of a degree, just like secs/minutes of a clock.


ahh makes sense now

[Edited on 12/7/12 by tcr]

[Edited on 12/7/12 by tcr]

britishtrident - 12/7/12 at 10:42 AM

Don't try toe-out on road car it destroys any stability the car has.

The rule of thumb is zero to 0.25 degrees toe in on the front and 0.25 to 0.5 degrees toe-in on the rear.

BobM - 12/7/12 at 10:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Corner weighting will help as well.


yeah thought about that but struggling to find somewhere near to do it

Drop me a line if you want to use mine at Donington on 21st

couch22k - 12/7/12 at 11:17 AM

quote:
Originally posted by tcr
quote:
Originally posted by coozer
Corner weighting will help as well.


yeah thought about that but struggling to find somewhere near to do it


See post below. Seems a really good deal.

http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=172341

tcr - 12/7/12 at 03:47 PM

Drop me a line if you want to use mine at Donington on 21st


thanks for the offer im taking it to have a full geo set-up done by barraw in the next few weeks mite still pop down to watch though...

procomp - 12/7/12 at 06:30 PM

Hi

Taking it somewhere to just have so called basic settings set up on it is going to be pointless.
What you need to establish FIRST is what settings you are likely to need.
For that the basic info you need to find out first is What camber control do you have during cornering IS it pulling on - or heading in a + direction, Whats happening to the toe whilst in roll. Until you have established those basic facts setting the car up is £ down the drain.

Cheers Matt

tcr - 12/7/12 at 06:44 PM

how do places like northampton motorsport set a fresh built car or a locost thats never been on the track ? our car has no settings what so ever , the suspension was bolted on and thats how its been since. 70 quid to have a starting point dont seem bad to me atleast that way it can be driven to find the data you mentioned . the sprint car was done by a school mate who is the chief mechanic for thorny motorsport btcc but he's a bit busy at the mo


[Edited on 12/7/12 by tcr]

[Edited on 12/7/12 by tcr]

rusty nuts - 12/7/12 at 08:15 PM

quote:
Originally posted by loggyboy
quote:
Originally posted by MRLuke
A tiny bit of front toe out (max 3mm total) will improve turn in and steering response.


3mm measured where? tracking should to be in degrees (or minutes if you can be accurate enough).


In that case why do just about all modern cars have tracking settings in mm? Camber and castor is given in degrees but very rarely tracking in this day and age. 50 year old Dunlop tracking gauges were able to give toe in/ out in fractions of an inch as well as degrees and IIRC mm

britishtrident - 14/7/12 at 11:16 AM

Dunlop ( or Sealey ) optical or laser gauges good and very accurate for measuring toe across the axle especially if you zero them properly before use.
In recent years I have been use a Trakrite and I have been really impressed by it.