Board logo

mig or Tig what to buy?
hootsno1 - 6/2/14 at 09:55 PM

Hi all
Its my birthday at the end of the month and the wife said she will buy me a welder Iv never done any welding before so I don't know which on to choose my options are:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TIG-Welder-160AMP-DC-Inverter-240V-R-Tech-Tig160PDC-0-Finance-Available-/191060656745?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2c7 c1a4269

OR

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIG-MMA-Inverter-Welder-180Amp-240V-R-Tech-I-Mig180-0-finance-available-/291073018256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43c 54dc990

its just going to be used for making brackets and general garage things
also do i need a licence for the gas bottles I'm thinking of the ones that are about 3,4ft tall? and where is the best place to buy gas in essex

whats you thought collective

many thanks
Mark

[Edited on 7/2/14 by hootsno1]

dave_424 - 6/2/14 at 10:03 PM

For general purpose, garage things MIG is going to be the winner. No license needed for bottles, best to do rent free if you are welding small things and might have large amounts of time between welding. Basically you pay for the bottle and you own it, take it back and pay for a refill when it's empty. If you want to stop you can return the bottle and get back your initial payment.

Dave

benchmark51 - 6/2/14 at 10:49 PM

go for hobbyweld 5. Initial returnable deposit, no rental, good value for money.
look them up on the web.

mark chandler - 6/2/14 at 11:13 PM

MIG will work out cheaper, get the biggest bottle you can get your hands on I have a 20litre bottle from Adams gas, used to have full cougars from BOC but the rental kills them as a DIY proposition.

ste - 7/2/14 at 05:38 AM

I have had a Clarke 151 for a few years and in my opinion it is a fantastic welder for the money.

I'd steer clear of chinese ones, my Machine Mart welder, I can walk into any shop and pick up consumables. You will be surprised as a learner welder how many tips you will melt.

My one has welded 3mm plate on a near commercial scale at one point for several months.

Couldn't recommend it higher and the price is fantastic

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/151te-turbo-mig-welder

imp paul - 7/2/14 at 06:49 AM

Morning mark I have had a lowcost welder. it was a sip and it was a pile of crap, moving on I got a new one from weldeqip. its a portamig 235 and it awesome pal made by tech ark in York so it all English built by hand top bit of kit ;-)

cliftyhanger - 7/2/14 at 07:25 AM

At diy money, avoid sip like the plague, they are troublesome. Clarke are a much better option. All from bitter experience of buying a sip......and 25 years of old cars that need welding up plus fabrication.
Currently using a clarke 151 which is a good all rounder, though my first mig, a clarke 90, was better for body panels, but struggled with thicker stuff.
All depends on budget and use really. Portamig and other pro stuff are good, if you can justify the costs. I can't.

joneh - 7/2/14 at 07:55 AM

I have the Clarke 151te MIG and hobby weld 5.

You need to ditch the included regulator, but other than that it's great to learn on and perfect for the chassis.

Jon

T66 - 7/2/14 at 08:30 AM

Im onto MIG no3

1) Clarke 90 - excellent little set

2) SIP - a turd of a machine

3) Clarke 195tec - A great machine, picked up 2nd hand for £250

[Edited on 7/2/14 by T66]

Thetom - 7/2/14 at 08:37 AM

The R-tech TIG you have linked to is a cracking machine. I had the 200amp dc version until a couple of months ago when I changed it for the 160amp AC version (still R-tech)so I can do ally. I learnt on the 200amp dc from a similar position to you and can now weld really neatly. The benefit of tig is you can do really neat and really quite small welds if required. I did a 10mm thick tow bar for my landrover down to 0.9mm stainless sheet with it. R-tech seem to be a really helpful company to deal with too.

As the others have said, rent free bottle, I get a 9l bottle, usually about 40-50 quid deposit and the same again to fill it, last me months of generally garage cocking about.

[Edited on 7/2/14 by Thetom]

ashg - 7/2/14 at 08:52 AM

If your willing to spend £400 on a Chinese rtec put another £250 to it and go buy a European made esab caddy 200. Do it right do it once. I went for that over the portamig and am very glad i did as it's up there in the ultra league of migs, the porta mig I demo'd was also very good but didn't quite have the effortless feel/ arc stability of the esab. Clarke are reasonable but just don't cut it against pro rigs, plenty of people have built chassis with them though so they are not useless.

If you only intend to weld the odd bracket once in a blue moon then the Clark will most likely suffice, and not hurt your wallet, if your doing a whole chassis it's worth spending a bit more.

hootsno1 - 7/2/14 at 03:02 PM

thanks for all the info guys I'm going to have a look and a play to make up my mine

cheers
Mark

TallGuySmallBike - 8/2/14 at 10:59 PM

People saying Sip welders are crap.. Nope.

I may be biased. having never used a MIG from Sip.

But I've got a home TIG 176 from them.. Great welds, never overheats.
I get my gas bottle from Energas - £22 for refills, £6 a month - not bad for the rate i use it up.

coozer - 9/2/14 at 12:30 AM

Another vote for Weldqiup of the mig welding forum.

I got a Portamig 185 and its fannytastic.. full size reel of 1.8 wire and it welds anything down to 1mm bodywork. I welded 2 bits of box together with foot long welds, the only thing that faded was me! I've constructed a chassis and been using it for 4 years now and so far haven't replaced the tip or anything on the torch (full euro torch) the crusty build ups just knock off with no burning of the tip or shroud.

Had a rust hole underneath one of the jacking points on the tintop, new metal welded in a charm.

I had a Clark 150 before that and all I can say is I wish I'd took the plunge for a decent set first!

lotus_esprit_s1 - 16/2/14 at 08:44 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ashg
If your willing to spend £400 on a Chinese rtec put another £250 to it and go buy a European made esab caddy 200. Do it right do it once. I went for that over the portamig and am very glad i did as it's up there in the ultra league of migs, the porta mig I demo'd was also very good but didn't quite have the effortless feel/ arc stability of the esab. Clarke are reasonable but just don't cut it against pro rigs, plenty of people have built chassis with them though so they are not useless.

If you only intend to weld the odd bracket once in a blue moon then the Clark will most likely suffice, and not hurt your wallet, if your doing a whole chassis it's worth spending a bit more.


I've never used an ESAB caddyMIG however I own an ESAB caddyARC and an ESAB ACDC caddyTIG and they are both fantastic and very well built. Well worth paying the extra for.

I tried a Portamig to see what all the fuss was about. It was okay but no better than my ancient Sealey supermig 180. I splashed out on a Lorch Mpro instead -awesome.

blakep82 - 16/2/14 at 10:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by TallGuySmallBike
People saying Sip welders are crap.. Nope.

I may be biased. having never used a MIG from Sip.

But I've got a home TIG 176 from them.. Great welds, never overheats.
I get my gas bottle from Energas - £22 for refills, £6 a month - not bad for the rate i use it up.


the migs had wire speed issues from what i've seen, the motors are supposed to be weak and don't keep a constant speed very well, so you wouldn't have that problem with TIG of course

[Edited on 16/2/14 by blakep82]

DIY Si - 17/2/14 at 04:55 PM

I faced this problem a while ago, and ended up buying the biggest MIG I could find at the time. I ended up with an old(er) Migatronic 180MXE. It's a big industrial sized thing, and has never skipped a beat. Nor do I expect it to given how massive the internals are and how little I use it. The dial go to 7 and I think I used 3 to weld 4mm plate. It's also got the useful addition of pulsed, triggered, latched and what ever the other option is for welding. But parking it in the garage can require some thought, as it's big old beast.

T66 - 17/2/14 at 05:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
quote:
Originally posted by TallGuySmallBike
People saying Sip welders are crap.. Nope.

I may be biased. having never used a MIG from Sip.

But I've got a home TIG 176 from them.. Great welds, never overheats.
I get my gas bottle from Energas - £22 for refills, £6 a month - not bad for the rate i use it up.


the migs had wire speed issues from what i've seen, the motors are supposed to be weak and don't keep a constant speed very well, so you wouldn't have that problem with TIG of course

[Edited on 16/2/14 by blakep82]




I read a while back that converting it from a plastic liner to a wire bound one made a difference( vice versa ?) , but the motor drive wheel on the wire had a pretty poor tension adjustment, so it spent most of its time being erratic with feed issues. In its defence it never overheated, but that was probably down to it cooling down frequently as I cleared the never ending feed issues.

The Black Flash - 17/2/14 at 09:34 PM

quote:
Originally posted by T66

I read a while back that converting it from a plastic liner to a wire bound one made a difference( vice versa ?) , but the motor drive wheel on the wire had a pretty poor tension adjustment, so it spent most of its time being erratic with feed issues. In its defence it never overheated, but that was probably down to it cooling down frequently as I cleared the never ending feed issues.


They all have wire liners now I believe, mine did have. What I did have to do was make a brace to hold the feed mechanism together, which seems to solve the misfeeding problems.
I only got a SIP because it was recommended in a PPC group test, but I wouldn't buy one again. I only do odd bits so it's not too bad, but I'd get something more expensive with a euro torch next time.

DIY Si - 18/2/14 at 04:37 PM

quote:
Originally posted by The Black Flash
quote:
Originally posted by T66

I read a while back that converting it from a plastic liner to a wire bound one made a difference( vice versa ?) , but the motor drive wheel on the wire had a pretty poor tension adjustment, so it spent most of its time being erratic with feed issues. In its defence it never overheated, but that was probably down to it cooling down frequently as I cleared the never ending feed issues.


They all have wire liners now I believe, mine did have. What I did have to do was make a brace to hold the feed mechanism together, which seems to solve the misfeeding problems.
I only got a SIP because it was recommended in a PPC group test, but I wouldn't buy one again. I only do odd bits so it's not too bad, but I'd get something more expensive with a euro torch next time.


That's exactly how I fixed the feed on mine too. A little bent steel plate that stopped the roller adjuster lifting away and couple with a new wire liner and it was like a different welder. Much more like one that actually worked.

coyoteboy - 23/2/14 at 08:25 AM

Don't sip MIGs run the wire feed off the same PSU and reg as the arc gen set which means the feed rate is abominably poor to control? Pretty sure mine never slips in the rollers but it sure as hell accelerates and decelerates as the spark varies. This is why people bolt in a second PSU for the feed isn't it?

imp paul - 23/2/14 at 10:51 AM

quote:
Originally posted by coyoteboy
Don't sip MIGs run the wire feed off the same PSU and reg as the arc gen set which means the feed rate is abominably poor to control? Pretty sure mine never slips in the rollers but it sure as hell accelerates and decelerates as the spark varies. This is why people bolt in a second PSU for the feed isn't it?



Yes they do as I put a separate transformer in , with a rectifier this did help but still a pile of crap. so sold it and spent some penny's on a proper mig portamig 235 awesome ;-)