I think a seven style car with a reliable max of 150 bhp more than enough to keep people happy on the road and track days it's much more fun trying to stay with people on track days with way more power...or am I missing something....
You're dead right.
Time was when 165bhp of 1700 steel xflow was considered the absolute ultimate giant slayer.
Now, it seems that's the starting point.
Its an age thing Ian, like music if its too loud you are too old
Cheers simon
Funny you should say this, but I am looking at speccing my engine now - and originally figured 150bhp would be plenty after a blat in a Caterham of
that order.
Then you start talking about it and all of a sudden it's 200bhp is not enough!
I am settling on between 150 and 200 as a 'ballpark' - mainly due to the added cost of drivetrain upgrades (have a type 9) once you go over
200 (apparently!).
Anyway - as long as it's fun who cares!
There is in my mind the possibility of to much power, that is to say that you spend to much time feathering the throttle and being wary of planting
your foot.
I am running a standard Pinto at the moment and it's not enough, nearly finished rebuilding the 2.1 with about 130bhp that should be adequate and
will fix up the higher powered 1 and let you know
I do hanker after a Duratec thought ® that will have 200bhp with ease
I agree, I still run a xflow, and the current one is only a 1630 and about 110bhp
My 1691 at 145bhp was brilliant but unreliable on twin 40's and very thirsty
I put more effort into weight saving now against power and over the last few years have cut about 30kgs plus, out of my car by cutting of wasted
threads on bolts etc and the wheels I currently have, superlights and 4 of them weigh the same as one of the old capri wheels
It could be an age thing, as I got slippers for xmas !
[Edited on 21/7/14 by steve m]
Having briefly had tenure of an Audi TT, earlier this year, I quickly came to the conclusion that I shouldn't use most of the performance most of
the time in that.
225bhp and around 1400kg or thereabouts.
It would easily lay it all down and handle it, as could I.
But it reached speeds it shouldn't in places it shouldn't.
I went from that to using a Peugeot 107 at work, with 1000cc and 60bhp.
Driving that, in comparison, is a hoot.
You get to use all of the power, the vast majority of the time.
Make of that what you will.
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Having briefly had tenure of an Audi TT, earlier this year, I quickly came to the conclusion that I shouldn't use most of the performance most of the time in that.
225bhp and around 1400kg or thereabouts.
It would easily lay it all down and handle it, as could I.
But it reached speeds it shouldn't in places it shouldn't.
I went from that to using a Peugeot 107 at work, with 1000cc and 60bhp.
Driving that, in comparison, is a hoot.
You get to use all of the power, the vast majority of the time.
Make of that what you will.
to be fair, so am I for the most part,. My Fury has circa 170bhp,.. it is a hoot,...
Yes I agree. Working the engine and gears is what attracts me, seems like your're more involved. Especially on a well balanced locost. Better
than a point and squirt set-up, which would be to fast for my brain. But each to there own
Most people seem too agree so I'm not going mad just I bit old...
1700 x flow twin 40s 135bhp quick, changed to 899cc zx9 was dyno on bike at 165bhp much more fun cheaper road tax too.
quote:
Originally posted by kj
1700 x flow twin 40s 135bhp quick, changed to 899cc zx9 was dyno on bike at 165bhp much more fun cheaper road tax too.
I need at least 220bhp to increase my power to weight. (And torque to weight)
I must admit, I do read lots of posts, and do lots of searches on here to find out this and that to increase power etc, then I think actually I really
cant be bothered. I really enjoy the car as it is. Although I am hugely disappointed in the overall performance as when I was looking into kit cars,
you would get all these answers as to how you could pretty much beat anything on the roads.
Running a 2.0 blacktop on standard ford ecu, there must be something wrong with my car as I don't think in any way that its that quick.
I just get out there and enjoy driving a car that I built. Hence why I am quite close to my 3000 mile limit for the year
quote:
Originally posted by daveb666
I need at least 220bhp to increase my power to weight. (And torque to weight)
quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
Funny you should say this, but I am looking at speccing my engine now - and originally figured 150bhp would be plenty after a blat in a Caterham of that order.
Then you start talking about it and all of a sudden it's 200bhp is not enough!
I am settling on between 150 and 200 as a 'ballpark' - mainly due to the added cost of drivetrain upgrades (have a type 9) once you go over 200 (apparently!).
Anyway - as long as it's fun who cares!
More power = More bragging rights
That's the long and and short of it!
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
My type 9 is handling 272 and 308ftlb quite happily
I've had my standard engined Indy for nearly 5 years and it still frightens the cr@p out of me !
quote:
Originally posted by kingster996
quote:
Originally posted by Ben_Copeland
My type 9 is handling 272 and 308ftlb quite happily
So why do so many people reckon it can't handle more than "around 180" without upgrades?
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
quote:
Originally posted by kj
1700 x flow twin 40s 135bhp quick, changed to 899cc zx9 was dyno on bike at 165bhp much more fun cheaper road tax too.
My old car had 135bhp of xflow.
Two owners later it had a ZX9 engine at 150 ish bhp.
Next owner after that, R1 at whatever BHP.
Last I heard, it had a turbocharged R1. Most certainly well over 200bhp.
Who had the most fun / did the most miles ?
quote:
Originally posted by AndyW
I must admit, I do read lots of posts, and do lots of searches on here to find out this and that to increase power etc, then I think actually I really cant be bothered. I really enjoy the car as it is. Although I am hugely disappointed in the overall performance as when I was looking into kit cars, you would get all these answers as to how you could pretty much beat anything on the roads.
Running a 2.0 blacktop on standard ford ecu, there must be something wrong with my car as I don't think in any way that its that quick.
I just get out there and enjoy driving a car that I built. Hence why I am quite close to my 3000 mile limit for the year
Mines pretty lethal in the wet but in the dry with the tyres I'm using I can get all the power down, no problem.
It's a massive rush as the power comes in and I still feel I'd like more, but it's running fairly standard really so it's
reliable.
Not sure about the bragging rights thing...and I can 'use' the power I have on a track. On the road is a different game entirely but then I've given up driving very fast road cars as that is not the best place to drive quickly.
I'm aiming for a power to weight ratio slightly better than the donor MX5, but keeping options to improve it at a later date. I reckon it will still be plenty to get myself into trouble.
My 248bhp is adequate. TBH, 200bhp is probably more than enough for a road specification car so I've no desire to go for any more power at this stage especially as there are very few places you can deploy the power safely and legally.
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
quote:
Originally posted by kj
1700 x flow twin 40s 135bhp quick, changed to 899cc zx9 was dyno on bike at 165bhp much more fun cheaper road tax too.
My old car had 135bhp of xflow.
Two owners later it had a ZX9 engine at 150 ish bhp.
Next owner after that, R1 at whatever BHP.
Last I heard, it had a turbocharged R1. Most certainly well over 200bhp.
Who had the most fun / did the most miles ?
Me!
It's not all about power, mines well balanced,good aero,and superb under braking! Corner speeds and late braking are where I'm gaining time on the sprints.
I think there are two schools of thought here:
1) Road use where 150bhp is fine. Being open to the elements and low to the ground give you a great rush and very enjoyable Sunday mornings.
2) track use where the whole concept of speed and comparison between cars is so much higher. If you go on track more often then your focus of
enjoyment is something else. It's finding the limit, pushing hard and being fast compared to others. As other track day users have increased
their power you feel obligated to do the same. Years back a 150bhp pinto would suffice because it was in the front runners. Now 170bhp BEC and 230bhp
duratecs run the roost.
I guess they are both providing the same sensation, enjoyable driving. It's just the environments that you try and achieve enjoyable driving
dictates what you need to do it.
The point I was trying to make was 150bhp for the road is more than enough and having fun at track days is keeping up with quicker more powerful cars not being the fastest car just overtaking everyone .
quote:
Originally posted by kj
1700 x flow twin 40s 135bhp quick, changed to 899cc zx9 was dyno on bike at 165bhp much more fun cheaper road tax too.
I must agree - one can get over powered.
Having driven everything from a Group N Toyota 1300cc Conguest to a Formula Atlantic 3.6l V6 with the odd 6.3 l Cobra and GT 40 in between, I must
admit that the little very underpowered Toyota was just as much fun as the others. If I analyse it the fun was all about how chuckable and
controllable it was. The others all needed you to rein yourself in and promised very severe consequences, both financially and physically, if you
pushed too hard, with much less warning that you had overcooked it and needing vastly more skill than I had to approach their limits with any chance
of recovery from any minor errors.
I would guess that a 0-60mph time of around 6 seconds is more than adequate for most uses. (Says he whose Cobra with the right tyres could most
probably achieve that in the low to mid 3 second range - but then I am frightened of it and can't use all its power on public roads and even on
the track)
Dyno print out from bike not sure what he done with it but it makes me smile
I know its dyno jetted and a k&n
[Edited on 22/7/14 by kj]
I bought my car with a 1700 XFlow putting out about 130ish
I then "upgraded" to a Zetec with ITBs which Rolling Roaded at 170ish
Give me back my Xflow any day. Much more character, much more fun to drive. Better sound, better feel. True, it wasn't as quick in a straight
line but could go round the corners at the same speed.
Personally I find all the fun comes not from driving fast but accelerating fast in all directions. 300hp in a 1400kg tin top isn't even remotely
close to enough to be more than "spritely", 150 in a 750kg kit wouldn't be either. The first time I felt a car that was REALLY fun to
drive was 90hp in a 200kg car. I enjoy blasting through the gears, I enjoy hooning into corners as much as the next man, I don't enjoy holding
the throttle flat down waiting uninspired. I drive an underpowered (90hp, 1500kg car) tin-top daily, I spend most of my time at full throttle waiting
for it to respond and get me up to speed just on a normal commute. If I want to get somewhere briskly I have to carry way too much speed through
corners to be safe so I don't do it. This is dull. I don't get the "driving it at it's limits is fun even if the limits are
low" malarky - it gets dull very quickly unless you're on a track.
[Edited on 22/7/14 by coyoteboy]
200bhp and 550kg is enough and is fast for road use and usable
i used to have this now ive 340bhp and far less enjoyable
quote:
Originally posted by beaver34
200bhp and 550kg is enough and is fast for road use and usable
i used to have this now ive 340bhp and far less enjoyable
Too many get fixed on power and don't understand just how rewarding getting the handling right on these cars can be.
Mine started at around 165 with webers but I was more than happy to drop it back to 150 to get cheap drivability.
I was disappointed with the out right acceleration but it carried more than enough speed to put a smile on my face. For the feel of pure speed very
little matches that of a 1000cc sports bike.
quote:
Originally posted by kj
1700 x flow twin 40s 135bhp quick, changed to 899cc zx9 was dyno on bike at 165bhp much more fun cheaper road tax too.
My 1.6 pinto in from my Sierra donor was, I believe, expected to put out less than 70bhp when new. Not sure how much difference a '7' style
exhaust could make but I'm expecting to stick with that engine for the foreseeable...
I'm only 32 so it's not an 'old' thing...
550kg and 105bhp!! 45 mpg on the road and has already been said, the key to all of this is set up and handling.
Zetec SE 1.4 plus free Fiesta = £350. Don't touch it apart from ECU and manifold, until it breaks, and repeat!!
As quick as most cars at road legal speeds and a real hoot to drive!!
Same car sent away log book engine receipt and log book with garage report on conversion, from MS word. From £127 for 6 months to £140 per year
quote:
Originally posted by kj
Same car sent away log book engine receipt and log book with garage report on conversion, from MS word. From £127 for 6 months to £140 per year
Easier than I thought
i'm planning on fitting a 170hp motor into my global with the intention of fitting a turbo at a later date when money allows in my opinion power is only good as long as its usable
Scoots what's your plans
my main in aim is the most horses for the £. so my cbr900 engine was £225 I guess its about 130hp so £1.70 per BHP
:O)
David
My little car is to fast for the road, works very well on the track.
Road tyres = acceleration wheel spin in the lower gears, in the wet it spins them up in 6th!
200bhp , close to 400kg.
I just let the lightweight stuff go past and do what they do best which is corner speed . My car is seriously fat now with all the fluids tipping the scales at 1018kg fully fuelled with driver but has 520 hp 460lb/ft so I just harass all the expensive stuff on track days . Don't think I'd have any more fun in a super lightweight car to be honest but I've booked the full palmersport day in September to see if I'm missing out
quote:
Originally posted by zilspeed
Having briefly had tenure of an Audi TT, earlier this year, I quickly came to the conclusion that I shouldn't use most of the performance most of the time in that.
225bhp and around 1400kg or thereabouts.
It would easily lay it all down and handle it, as could I.
But it reached speeds it shouldn't in places it shouldn't.
I went from that to using a Peugeot 107 at work, with 1000cc and 60bhp.
Driving that, in comparison, is a hoot.
You get to use all of the power, the vast majority of the time.
Make of that what you will.
quote:
One of the best drives I've ever had was in a 1.0L Corsa hire car on holiday. Admittedly I was racing my best friend in a 1.0L Micra. The road was like velvet, with endless cambered corners. It was 100% about maintaining momentum and avoiding the brake pedal at all cost. The air con was switched off, wing mirrors folded and we were hunkered as low as we could get in the seats. There was understeer, a little oversteer and a lot of edge of the tarmac dust clouds. The cars were awesome and we were Schumacher and Loeb. 1000cc is all you need for a lot of fun
quote:
quote:
One of the best drives I've ever had was in a 1.0L Corsa hire car on holiday. Admittedly I was racing my best friend in a 1.0L Micra. The road was like velvet, with endless cambered corners. It was 100% about maintaining momentum and avoiding the brake pedal at all cost. The air con was switched off, wing mirrors folded and we were hunkered as low as we could get in the seats. There was understeer, a little oversteer and a lot of edge of the tarmac dust clouds. The cars were awesome and we were Schumacher and Loeb. 1000cc is all you need for a lot of fun
And death. This is exactly what I meant by you have to drive to unacceptably risky limits (for the road) in a low powered car for it to be fun.
Most memorable drive I've had is going up and down the col de Turini in a citroen pluriel rental complete with paddle shift .