vinny1275
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 06:53 PM |
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If Hamilton had gained an advantage by using the escape road, Kimi did the same thing further on in the lap - they both went wide, Hamilton came back
on quickly, Kimi used all of the run-off and made up ground on Lewis as they came across Rosberg, where Kimi overtook him.
All looked fair to me, I can't believe that they thought there was anything wrong with it, and the penalty was unbelievably harsh. On other
occasions, I'm sure drivers have only had a 10 second penalty. In a normal race, 25 seconds would be the difference between 1st and 8th!
Mclaren always seem to get the worst of any decision going in F1, and Ferrari always the best. There ought to be fixed penalties for each breach of
the rules, and to give a more harsh one the stewards would have to prove that the offence caused extreme danger to other drivers. Then there
can't be any intentional skewing of results in favour of one driver.
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 06:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
I must be in the minority (and posted this on the earlier thread before the investigation was launched).
I'm a Macca fan, but even to me it was obvious that Hamilton did not yield properly!
First things first - Kimi defended the corner correctly. Hamilton was never going to make that one on the outside without running wide.
When he returned to the track, he was fractionally behind Kimi and momentarily stayed fractionally behind Kimi (that's not yielding). But
having cut the corner, Hamilton was able to get the power down quicker. This is backed up by the stewards investigation into Hamiltons telemetry - it
showed (allegedly) that he never backed off at any point... he just kept accelerating!
Yes, I agree that the rules such as these make for a less exciting speactacle, but the rules are the rules and Hamilton stepped outside them.
He should have actively yielded to Raikkonen when he returned to the track and not used his deviation to his advantage. It was clear to me visually
(and I obviously have no access to telemetry!) that Hamilton gained an enormous advantage.
spot on. but as a ferrari fan i would say that
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t.j.
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:04 PM |
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 First time in 3 years I looked and thought "it is better then 4 years back, maybe I should watch regular..."
Now I hear this and think: the dollar-show continues....
I won't watch it until this "show" will stop.
Please feel free to correct my bad English, i'm still learning. Your Dutch is awfull! :-)
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Aico
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:04 PM |
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When accelerating on the straight the gap between cars increase. You can clearly see that this is not the case here. This is an advantage caused by
the shortcut. I do find the penalty unfair, but there clearly was an advantage. Atleast if you think about it unbiased.
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clairetoo
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:08 PM |
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I think what wind's me up the most about this is that Lewis was penalized for gaining an advantage - over a driver that didn't even
finish
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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muzchap
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:08 PM |
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Ferrari fan - yeah right - you mean you support these f*%king cheating, lying scumball, pasta eating, sh&t car building f*^kwits!
No wonder Ross Braun legged it - he'd seen enough
They are dragging the sport into a FARCE.
This was no worse than in any other race - and look at how Schumacher used to bend the rules - was he EVER punished - oh no, he wasn't.
Simple, want to win a world championship - hop in a Ferrari
Stewards - independent - seriously? Don't make me laugh... Next you'll be telling us Hitler was only 'joking' - the stewards
are in Ferrari's pocket too - make no mistake.
*THIS POST WAS BROUGHT TO YOU BY LOTS OF SAN MIGUEL and ANGER*
*It's pretty much a garbage rant and as rightly pointed out by Scootz wildly inaccurate - i'm leaving it here as a reminder for me not to
post after boozing!*
[Edited on 7/9/08 by muzchap]
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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scootz
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:17 PM |
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One or two flaws in your post Muzchap... I can only be arsed pointing out the one though - was Schumi EVER punished?
Er, yes... a few times - most notably being the only driver ever to have the World Title taken from him after a stewards investigation!
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smart51
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:18 PM |
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Its a totally unfair ruling. Hamilton gradually caught up then tried an overtake. He was pushed wide and had to (was forced to) leave the track.
This caused him to go ahead in the race and, rightly, he slowed to give the place back. After this he started to race again.
Cutting the corner did give him an unfair advantage, obviously, but rightly he gave the place back. Trying to overtake is the name of the game. So
is resisting being overtaken. It so happened that he was forced off the track as a result of legitimate racing and he conscientiously gave the place
back. If the rules forbid this then the rules are wrong. I want to see racing in F1 not a parade. Hamilton is the only one who attempts overtaking
with any frequency and is the one putting life back into F1. Don't punish him for making the sport interesting again, you'll just ruin
it. All that aside, it was still a stupid and unfair ruling.
McLaren should make an appeal, even if the FIA say the can't.
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scoop
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:27 PM |
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The weasel is pulling the strings again in an attempt to hype the sport, raise the raitings etc and drag it out to the last race as usual. What a
criminal ruling
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scootz
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:28 PM |
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He was forced to leave the track because he attempted a move that was not on. Kimi defended the corner correctly, so Lewis was the master of his own
destiny there! I'm raging at that decision because I'm sure he would have taken Kimi later in the race at a more suitable point.
Highlights his inexperience!
The debate on here surrounds whether or not Lewis yielded. Personally, I don't think he did. He remained pretty much abreast of the Ferrari
and it appears that Kimi got a slightly better drive putting him marginally ahead.
My understanding is that the telemetry supports this. The early indication from the stewards investigation is that Lewis hit the gas pedal and went
for a drag race against Kimi.
Kimi hit a patch of damp mid-way down the straight and went into a wobble - Lewis braked to avoid him and ducked inside ... this is the only point
where it could be argued that Lewis gave up the place.
Point is - he never gave up the place. He was forced into the move and then turned it into an overtake.
That's how it looked to me... and I'll say it again - I'm a Macca fan!
We can debate it all we like as to how we all individually saw it - only the telemetry of either car can give an entirely accurate account of what
actually happened. The stewards have looked at this and made their decision.... end of!
I find the decision to punish Heikki far more bizarre - we see incidents like that week in week out without any penalties being thrown about!
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roadrunner
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:29 PM |
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Did anyone see the last race when Massa was released from the pit stop onto another incoming car. In the gp2 race this weekend it happened again, the
driver had a drive through penalty, Massa's was investigated after the race and he was'nt punished. Ferrari can do nothing wrong, they
might as well give them the title at the start of the season.
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bigfoot4616
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 07:40 PM |
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no punishment for massa was the right decision, as that has happened several times this year with no penalties.
not seen this weekends GP2 incident but the ones from last time out where completly differant to massa's as they pulled out right in front of
another car, not alongside then slotting in behind.
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locoR1
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 08:01 PM |
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Just found this on the Westfield forum. Petition to the FIA to reconsider the 25sec penalty.
http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html
 
Description
Check out my CB500T Cafe Racer build diary
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clairetoo
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by locoR1
Just found this on the Westfield forum. Petition to the FIA to reconsider the 25sec penalty.
http://www.petitiononline.com/belgp08/petition.html
Done
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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smart51
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 08:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
[Lewis] remained pretty much abreast of the Ferrari and it appears that Kimi got a slightly better drive putting him marginally ahead.
My understanding is that the telemetry supports this. The early indication from the stewards investigation is that Lewis hit the gas pedal and went
for a drag race against Kimi.
Kimi hit a patch of damp mid-way down the straight and went into a wobble - Lewis braked to avoid him and ducked inside ... this is the only point
where it could be argued that Lewis gave up the place.
Point is - he never gave up the place.
No, that's not how it happened. Lewis was ahead of Kimi after cutting the corner. Lewis held back and Kimi passed, just before the start /
finish line. Lewis then started to race again. Kimi hit a damp patch and wobbled. Lewis, still behind Kimi swerved just in case. The fact that
Lewis was ahead after cutting the corner but was behind when Kimi hit the damp patch was because Lewis gave up the place.
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Paul (Notts)
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 08:41 PM |
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=70rXr2Mkq_M
onboard video from Hamilton.
Paul
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ecosse
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 08:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
He was forced to leave the track because he attempted a move that was not on.
Sorry don't see it that way at all, LH was firmly alongside Kimi going into the corner, maybe even ahead!
quote:
Originally posted by scootz. I find the decision to punish Heikki far more bizarre - we see incidents like that week in week out without
any penalties being thrown about!
Completely agree with that one though, no consistency in the decision making
Cheers
Alex
Edited to add:
McLaren are however appealing the ruling which means the final say will belong with the FIA's International Court of Appeal.
"We looked at all our data and also made it available to the FIA stewards," a McLaren spokesperson told Autosport.
"It showed that, having lifted, Lewis was 6km/h slower than Kimi as they crossed the start/finish line.
"Having passed the lead back to Kimi, Lewis repositioned his car, moving across and behind Kimi to the right-hand line and then outbraked him
into the hairpin.
"Based on this data, we have no option other than to register our intention to appeal."
[Edited on 7/9/08 by ecosse]
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muzchap
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 08:53 PM |
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Scootz - sorry for the inaccuracies - I meant on a similar overtaking maneouver - I cannot remember the race or corner (good ole memory), but Schuey
did a very similar thing and got away with it...
My earlier post was a San Miguel rage inspired one - this is sans coffee and relaxation
I'm still deeply annoyed though - I did think it was a racing incident, he did yield and in light of the 'treacherous' conditions -
some slack should have been applied - AS IT WAS to Kimi when he 'murdered' the Force India car at Monaco...
I fully respect and appreciate the laws - I'm just arguing the consistency of the application - McLaren seem to be brought to task far more than
ANY constructor out there and the decisions always seem to favour Ferrari - now that could be as a coincidence of the Ferrari vs McLaren battles - I
don't know - but it does leave a bitter taste and is the 25 seconds the normal punishment protocol?
Actually watching that video - the only reason Hamilton got back past was because Kimi absolutely hosed the braking point for the first corner and got
way out of shape... How can Lewis be punished for Kimi's poor driving???
Ferrari's are terrible in the wet - look at Silverstone and the fact that Kimi threw it into the wall...
You can see Kimi in front of Lewis after the incident, end of story, the complied with the 'rule-book' - if Kimi had kept his car under
control, he would have been first into corner 1, but he didnt and Lewis should not be punished for Kimi's mistake....
Also - why wasn't a grid drop penalty considered for the next race? I'm pretty sure Ferrari would have liked that - guaranteed win on home
soil... I hope both their cars blow up on lap 1...
AND finally - http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=43854 poor old Timo got his point stripped!
[Edited on 7/9/08 by muzchap]
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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russbost
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 09:49 PM |
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Scootz - I have never ever singled anyone out b4 but you are obviously watching a different video (presumably of a different race!!!)
Since when has "abreast of " & "behind, astern" meant the same thing. If I can see a back end of a Ferrari AFTER the
chicane on the straight on Lewis' on board video then so can everyone else including the stewards - can someone please explain what
"yielding" is if it is not going behind the car you had an advantage of????
Also I quote
"Er, yes... a few times - most notably being the only driver ever to have the World Title taken from him after a stewards
investigation!"
This was in a parallel universe when he won the champiomship instead of coming second I take it?????
 
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hellbent345
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 09:58 PM |
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ref**kingdiculous what a load of horsesh*t i cant believe they gave such a large penalty for a start and for THAT! he was racing he clearly got a far
better line out of the corner and could have accelerated far past but he hung back and waited for him to pass again its f**king sh*t!!
[Edited on 7/9/08 by hellbent345]
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3GEComponents
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:01 PM |
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These two guys would be thown out of F1 today, i mean "over taking" each other what are they thinking about?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LzCqY8Wg5So&feature=related
John
[Edited on 7/9/08 by 3GEComponents]
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hellbent345
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:05 PM |
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especially in the light of watching and rwatching and seeing that he forced hamilton onto the grass at one point afterwards as well! rediculous
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muzchap
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:06 PM |
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Nice post - I've had this discussion quite a bit not with people and the 'other' camps argument is thus:
He didn't exactly play fair...
Er... it's racing, the rule book says he needs to YIELD - he YIELDED what happens AFTER that is irrelevant, he complied with the law.
The stewards are ALSO saying he NEEDLESSLY took to the run-off - but surely that's what it is there for? To prevent accidents?
I'd like to stick 2 stewards in the cars and see how long they last...
I've never been so disillusioned with F1 since the USA TYRE FARCE in 2005...
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If you believe you're not crazy, whilst everybody is telling you, you are - then they are definitely wrong!
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GeorgeM
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:22 PM |
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I'm trying to see where Lewis got a slipstream
from? He was to the left of Kimi. dropped behind,
& then to the right of him. How did that
give him a tow??? Looked like Kimi was slowing
more than Lewis for the corner.
What penalty will Kimi get for rear ending Lewis at
the next corner??-oh yes I forgot, the same as he got
in Monaco
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GeorgeM
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| posted on 7/9/08 at 10:23 PM |
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I'm trying to see where Lewis got a slipstream
from? He was to the left of Kimi. dropped behind,
& then to the right of him. How did that
give him a tow??? Looked like Kimi was slowing
more than Lewis for the corner.
What penalty will Kimi get for rear ending Lewis at
the next corner??-oh yes I forgot, the same as he got
in Monaco
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