striker-4age
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| posted on 10/3/12 at 08:09 PM |
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rolling roads in essex....atspeed ?
hi everyone 
looking into getting my 4age striker set up in essex, been looking into rolling roads does anyone have anything to say about atspeed in rayleigh ?
have been reading stuff on here and they sound like they have a good reputation............anyone used them ?
any info about local rolling roads near chelmsford ?
many thanks
striker-4age
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ashg
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 01:32 AM |
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they did a good job on my car on the previous engine. what ecu is it running. they tend to favour omex but will do others unless its a megasquirt
running a turbo lump.
Anything With Tits or Wheels Will cost you MONEY!!
Haynes Roadster (Finished)
Exocet (Finished & Sold)
New Project (Started)
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 09:26 AM |
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Where a bouts in Essex are you, can recommend some people etc, also I have a striker and would love to catch up as I'm only in Essex too,
Thanks
Sean
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striker-4age
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 10:16 AM |
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hi there
sean i am in chelmsford where are you mate ?
it is running a emerald ecu m3d, bike throttle boddies gsxr and a 4age 1.6 16v, it starts and runs but i stinks like it is over fuelling so i want to
get the map check/redone as i think it is just a base map to get her going
striker-4age
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MikeR
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:31 PM |
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Do a search on atspeed on here. Some people have had some good experiences, one had an issue due to them locking the map they'd done so it
couldn't be altered except by them - which meant another rolling road would have to do a full set up instead of a little tweek. They posted on
the thread and explained their approach.
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 03:56 PM |
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Hi I'm in Finchingfield near dunmow,
You also have redline racing in basildon,
Tcs in stansted,
Both very good,
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flibble
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 04:53 PM |
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Heard good things about Peter Baldwin at Wilshers Garages near Cambridge (not too too far for you).
P.S. INDY BIRD, must be fun in the kit in the summer playing 'dodge the lairy biker' on any sunny Sunday round your way!
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rusty nuts
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 05:24 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flibble
Heard good things about Peter Baldwin at Wilshers Garages near Cambridge (not too too far for you).
P.S. INDY BIRD, must be fun in the kit in the summer playing 'dodge the lairy biker' on any sunny Sunday round your way!
Pete is very good with clockwork ignition and carbs , he set my Luego up when I first took it to a rolling road, but I'm not too sure how he is
with engine management systems. Might be worth a ring?
My car now has an Emerald ECU and bike T/Bs which I found very easy to set up and get running well enough to get a few miles on the engine before
getting it set up at Emerald , my brother operated the laptop in the passengers seat while I drove. Do you have a lambda sensor in the exhaust? Even a
narrow band lambda can get good results using the built in gas anyliser on the Emerald ECU . Mine is one of the last before the K3? or whatever the
newer ECU is called. Dave Walkers book on engine management is very helpful if you haven't seen it
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striker-4age
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 07:11 PM |
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hi everyone
it runs the older m3d ecu, it dont have a lambda sensor  it does run but stinks of fuel, and once it has been running for a little while it dont
like to rev to high ???
looks like it is a trip to atspeed then, what are the prices like at tcs stansted ?
what should i be paying for insurance ??? and how many miles should i go for ??
what are the insurance companys you guys are using ?
many thanks
striker-4age
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 09:51 PM |
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Speak to Tom at tcs tell him I recommended to you,
Last time I had mine set up it was about £100 cheap in my book, but I would say allow about £150 if it's really bad as will be a couple of
hours I would have thought?
Good luck,
Sean
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striker-4age
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 10:15 PM |
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hi again sean
just emailed him so will let you know what the outcome is...........tcs or atspeed
now the weather is getting nicer i really need to get this thing on the road
insurance next
thanks
striker-4age
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INDY BIRD
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 10:51 PM |
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If you need his mobile u2u me I'll reply, tcs Tom is good not the most glamourous of buildings but he is good, does amazing work on skylines,
Hope to see you on road soon then or track?
Thanks Sean
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lsdweb
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| posted on 11/3/12 at 10:57 PM |
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Track and Road ? In Rainham I think - went there a few years ago with my single seater (Emerald on R1) - miles from home for me!
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FazerBob
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 01:11 AM |
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I had a nightmare time with ATSpeed. I paid them to strip the bike carbs, rebuild them and set up on rolling road. I had been using the carbs on my
previous engine for about 18 months, and decided they needed a re-fresh before using on my new engine.
Car ran like a bag of s**t when I got it back. They blamed everyone but themselves, - first they said faulty plugs (3 sets), plug leads (2 sets)
faulty ignition module (changed twice) even told me my engine was no good - it was a brand new Zetec still in the ford crate! When I took the plugs
out NO1 cylinder was litteraly awash with fuel, and No4 was bone dry.
After many phone calls and letters I decided to strip the carbs and start again. Mixture screw on No 4 was hanging on the last thread, while No 1 was
screwed in tight - so much for stripping and rebuilding. After doing the carbs myself the car ran like a dream for the next year until I sold it -
never missed beat.
I eventually got a full refund, and costs - but it was a battle.
Bob
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jeffw
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 08:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeR
Do a search on atspeed on here. Some people have had some good experiences, one had an issue due to them locking the map they'd done so it
couldn't be altered except by them - which meant another rolling road would have to do a full set up instead of a little tweek. They posted on
the thread and explained their approach.
This isn't how I understand the policy.
Atspeed place a password on the ECU when they map the car. The reason for this is that they have had a number of people 'fiddling' with
maps on turbo cars and causing damage which is then brought back to them to fix. So they now put a password on the ECU, if you want to get someone
else (or indeed you) to make changes to the map then they will supply you with the map which can be put onto the ECU, clearing the existing
password.
If you then return the vehicle to them they know if the password is intact that the ECU has had no changes and if there is no password someone has
been changing things.
This means that they are able to deal with 'warranty' type issues without any doubt as to what has happened to the ECU map. Simple.
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 12:17 PM |
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From what I've seen at Atspeed, they set the mixtures and ignition for their own peace of mind, not max power or economy.
Won't map an engine leaner than 13.7:1, when most race engines properly built need to run much leaner to get power and proper burn at max
revs.
Tom Airey is the best, but he doesn't do efi mapping.
Cheers,
Nev.
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bi22le
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 12:59 PM |
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I am also thinking of getting my car set up and mapped in the near future.
I contacted ATspeed for a quote, I am glad I was sitting down when I read the U2U.
Geometry check and set up - £250-£400
Remap (Due to new trumpets) - £315-£405.
Thats ex VAT. Between £565-£805. I was expecting around £400 for both, but hoping for £300!
I obviously have noted jumped at the quote so will be interested how this topic pans out.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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jeffw
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 06:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Neville Jones
From what I've seen at Atspeed, they set the mixtures and ignition for their own peace of mind, not max power or economy.
Won't map an engine leaner than 13.7:1, when most race engines properly built need to run much leaner to get power and proper burn at max
revs.
Tom Airey is the best, but he doesn't do efi mapping.
Cheers,
Nev.
Would you expected a company mapping road cars to not be prudent with their mapping? I'm sure if you indemnify them they would map you a race
engine.
quote:
I am also thinking of getting my car set up and mapped in the near future.
I contacted ATspeed for a quote, I am glad I was sitting down when I read the U2U.
Geometry check and set up - £250-£400
Remap (Due to new trumpets) - £315-£405.
Thats ex VAT. Between £565-£805. I was expecting around £400 for both, but hoping for £300!
I obviously have noted jumped at the quote so will be interested how this topic pans out.
You where seriously expecting a map and geometry setup for £300? Atspeed (if memory servers) charge £80 per hour for mapping, so they have given you
worse case scenario and it may only take a few hours.
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striker-4age
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 07:15 PM |
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hi everyone
sean i have had a reply from tom at tcs, so i am hopefully............ fingers crossed
many thanks to all the replys
nev why wont tom do efi mapping ?
many thanks
striker-4age
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greenwood03
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| posted on 12/3/12 at 09:04 PM |
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agree Jeff......Wayne, i would imagine Atspeed have come up with a worse case scenario cost wise....i swear by the 2 Steves at Track n Road and the
first full map i had was about £400, would have been a fair bit less if they hadnt had to tweak so many variables/settings due to the nature of teh
engine. But i'd still expect £300 ish for a map session that is fairly straightforward....
http://southernkitcars.comIntermarque Club for owners in the South/South East
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Neville Jones
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| posted on 13/3/12 at 10:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Would you expected a company mapping road cars to not be prudent with their mapping? I'm sure if you indemnify them they would map you a race
engine.
The engine being mapped at the time was for racing. And you indemnify them before they even start.
They are very good with carbs I'm informed, but still won't jet leaner than 13.7.
The best in the south is definitely Tom Airey, and he doesn't care about mixture as a primary concern, just power. He still uses the mixtures
though, and starts and sees what's there, then leans it to max power.
The above is all from first hand experience, and I'm no relation or business partner either!
Cheers,
Nev.
[Edited on 13/3/12 by Neville Jones]
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bi22le
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| posted on 13/3/12 at 06:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
I am also thinking of getting my car set up and mapped in the near future.
I contacted ATspeed for a quote, I am glad I was sitting down when I read the U2U.
Geometry check and set up - £250-£400
Remap (Due to new trumpets) - £315-£405.
Thats ex VAT. Between £565-£805. I was expecting around £400 for both, but hoping for £300!
I obviously have noted jumped at the quote so will be interested how this topic pans out.
You where seriously expecting a map and geometry setup for £300? Atspeed (if memory servers) charge £80 per hour for mapping, so they have given you
worse case scenario and it may only take a few hours.
No not serious, thats why I expected £400 and was hoping for £300 with an exclimation mark, gag intended!!
The reason I expected £400 was because I have already been given 2 quotes (one is a recomendation of a garage from a fellow LCB, the other is from a
respected trader on LCB offering his services) for a full geometry check to cost around £150.
The only reason I want a remap is because I have shortened the velocity stacks by approx 50mm, This will almost be a rolling road not a remap. Its
running a closed loop Omex 700 ECU with a completly stock engine. I want to make sure its smoothish and nothing bonkers is happening.
I asked for an estimate and thats what they supplied. I understand that, just glad I was sitting down!!
I am new to this game remember, still learning exactly what people mean by 'motorsport is expensive'
Biz
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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jeffw
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| posted on 13/3/12 at 08:37 PM |
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They are quoting you a complete remap ie worse case...
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 14/3/12 at 09:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by FazerBob
I had a nightmare time with ATSpeed. I paid them to strip the bike carbs, rebuild them and set up on rolling road. I had been using the carbs on my
previous engine for about 18 months, and decided they needed a re-fresh before using on my new engine.
Car ran like a bag of s**t when I got it back. They blamed everyone but themselves, - first they said faulty plugs (3 sets), plug leads (2 sets)
faulty ignition module (changed twice) even told me my engine was no good - it was a brand new Zetec still in the ford crate! When I took the plugs
out NO1 cylinder was litteraly awash with fuel, and No4 was bone dry.
After many phone calls and letters I decided to strip the carbs and start again. Mixture screw on No 4 was hanging on the last thread, while No 1 was
screwed in tight - so much for stripping and rebuilding. After doing the carbs myself the car ran like a dream for the next year until I sold it -
never missed beat.
I eventually got a full refund, and costs - but it was a battle.
Your memory seems as bad now as it was at the time of your problem. Your story changes every time I read it saying you drove the car home - the car
left here on a recovery truck, the same way it arrived. We would never have said your engine was no good as we had just finished dynoing the car.
Your problem was cured very easy, this was done when you replaced the stupid sub standard home made bracket holding the carbs together, which was
enabling the carbs to twist, taking the carbs out of balance. We found this when you returned the car back to us. The reason this didn't appear
on the rolling road was because you had replaced the throttle assembly as it was dangerous and too short a throw. You had input a variable to the car
after it leaving us.
You was never charged for a carb rebuild, but for a rolling road session to tune your car.
Around a week after tuning your car you called with a problem, and we suggested it could be a plug or a coil pack. It is very hard to do a correct
diagnosis over the phone, unfortunately the magic pixies and my crystal ball don't reach that far, but we did try to help you as best we could
via phone.
When you did return with the car after a little head scratching we found the carbs were out of balance, to be honest I thought we had a
"fiddler", but we rebalanced the carbs and had a pleasant chat with a cuppa and we sent you on your way. After half an hour you returned
with the same problem, somethign was clearly altering itself here, this was when I discovered the carb bracket problem and offered to make a more
substantial one for you, but you declined saying you could sort this out when you get home, thanking us for our time and efforts and left. We made no
attempt to charge you for this extra work, just happy to see a happy customer.
Soon after this the letters arrived... and to cut a long story short you was told that it was your bracket at fault due to your enthusiasm outweighing
your mechanical abilities.
You was never offered a refund and never got one.
To put your side of the story in a nutshell, you are manipulating events, and even missing out events entirely to make things appear in your favour,
as you did so in your letters.
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atspeed racing
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| posted on 14/3/12 at 10:05 AM |
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To answer some of the other comments regarding the prices we charge.
We have, I would think, at least £100,000 pounds worth of equipment and tools here at Atspeed to enable us to do a good job. this has to be paid for.
If you wanted to buy good quality oats for your thoroughbred horse you would expect to pay a good price, however, if you wanted oats that had already
been through the horse, the price would be less...wouldnt it.
Regarding the set up on a car. The digital scales cost me over a £1000.00..the caster and camber kit cost me over £500.00, tracking bar cost me over
£500.00, who do you think pays for this and its running cost, the tooth fairy!? we charge a minimum charge for use of this equipment, + our hourly
rate.
We dont just shove the car on the scales adjust the geo/tracking and throw the car out. The car is centre lined to make sure the axle is square in the
car, the car is C/W then the geo is adjusted along the wheel toe, then car is C/W again to make sure it is correct. We road test and then reset the
toe. This is what you pay for. This takes time (sometimes multiple days), and time has to be paid for. If you wanted the job cheaper, there are fast
fit centres across the country that would happily take your money, but they wouldnt do half the work that we would.
Carb tuning or EFI tuning.
How can we price a job over the phone? We have to give a good indictation of costing by poor examples we have had turn up, with comments like
"it runs all ok, just need a little trimming" five hours later we sorted all the problems out!! 90% of cars need basic work before we even
get the car on the rollers. We charge to do the job correctly. We do not just shove a couple of jets in your car to make it rich enough, we calibrate
it and EFI tuning is done calibrating a PROPER map not something a child would do, like we have seen countless times. This is why race teams and
engine builders use us and not others. Omex have used our maps for start up. Doing a job properly takes time, and we charge for our time.
The comment regarding AFR ratio.
We calibrate the car to run on wide open throttle to full power, if this is at 13:1 then that is where the car wants. If this power is made at a
number higher than 13.0 then the answer is likely no (infact most engines make maximum power far richer). It is SO easy when you are on the keyboard
sat at your desk to say this and say that, I would do this and I would do that. However when you have someones hard earnt money sitting at full
thottle screaming like a banshee and you say.."run it leaner...run it leaner..look more power more power..bang!!! Oh dear...sorry about that,
here is a shovel and a dustbin for you." We have to make sure the engine is safe with its mixture and ignition settings, and so it lasts the
entire race, not thirty seconds, if this means sacrificing BHP then so be it. Would you notice a couple of BHP down, I doupt it. Would you notice a
big hole in the piston or block?
We do many install power runs for many serious engine building companies, these cars would range from racing Ferraris to rally cars. These cars are
mapped by people that have been doing proper cars for many many years for manufacturers and works motorsport divisions. Never have we had one of these
cars that had an AFR on wide open throttle that was more than 13.0
Quality is appreciated long after the price is forgotten.
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