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How can I IVA four cars?
Strontium Dog - 18/7/10 at 11:44 AM

I and a three of mates are building four cars at the moment in a club style way in that we all help each other with the builds etc.. All three are being built at my home workshops and are being supervised by myself. All the ERW was bought by me for instance and I have the mill cert. for the batch used. I have just been informed that we may not be able to IVA all four as they are all being built at one premises and all with me overseeing the builds!

Any one know what I can do to get around this ludicrous legislation if it is in fact going to effect us?

[Edited on 18/7/10 by Strontium Dog]

MakeEverything - 18/7/10 at 11:47 AM

Sounds like a load of nutsack to me.

Youre not "Supervising" youre just providing the location - when the IVA man asks.

Why do you need a mill certificate??

As long as all four cars are IVA's seperately, it shouldnt be a problem.

Strontium Dog - 18/7/10 at 11:54 AM

The mill cert was just to prove that we used ERW really. An after thought as I don't have a receipt from the supplier as I am on rather good terms with them if you know what I mean

The problem seems to be that I will be accused of being a professional builder but don't have an appropriate facility so I won't be allowed to do manufacturers class testing! So on one hand I am a professional builder so require manufacturers testing but on the other hand I don't have "suitable premises or facilities" so cant do manufacturers testing! WTF

JoelP - 18/7/10 at 12:01 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
I have just been informed...


who told you that?

If its someone who knows their onions, then you might just need to make sure it doesnt appear that you are personally building them all. If you enter them individually, im not sure how they would know, or indeed why they would care?

How do MNR/MK etc get round this one?

Sounds total nonsense to me.

l0rd - 18/7/10 at 12:09 PM

Just remember, when you sent the pictures to DVLA, you only show one car and not the rest as well.

When they come out for inspection, pull it out of the garage and lock the rest there.

drury318 - 18/7/10 at 12:15 PM

Just a point to consider: Although I don`t see as you should have any probs at all regards the other 3, the Dvla insisted on seeing a receipt for the steel used for the chassis if I wanted an age related plate.
Dennis

MakeEverything - 18/7/10 at 12:16 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
I won't be allowed to do manufacturers class testing! So on one hand I am a professional builder so require manufacturers testing but on the other hand I don't have "suitable premises or facilities" so cant do manufacturers testing! WTF


....But thats what IVA is for.....

Why would you need to do manufacturers testing??

As far as i can see, you can build as many cars as you like. You dont claim to be a manufacturer, rather a "Kit Finisher".

Paul TigerB6 - 18/7/10 at 01:19 PM

They (DVLA) simply dont need to know - and what they dont know doesnt hurt them. There's nowhere on the forms about where the kit was built is there??, and as stated - you're just providing the location for 3 mates who are building their own cars.

You'll potentially be creating a problem that doesnt exist if you start looking to be officially "the supervisor" of all the builds and making to suggestions to the DVLA that you could be considered to be a manufacturer - especially by considering IVA'ing all 4 yourself.

Just carry on as it being 4 "home builds" and the 4 of you each IVA your own car as normal

iank - 18/7/10 at 01:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MakeEverything
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
I won't be allowed to do manufacturers class testing! So on one hand I am a professional builder so require manufacturers testing but on the other hand I don't have "suitable premises or facilities" so cant do manufacturers testing! WTF


....But thats what IVA is for.....

Why would you need to do manufacturers testing??

As far as i can see, you can build as many cars as you like. You dont claim to be a manufacturer, rather a "Kit Finisher".


It's the difference between a professional kit finisher and an amateur builder. IVA is for amateur builders only. Kit finishers aren't strictly allowed according to the rules.

So long as the actual builders put them in for IVA with photo's showing only their cars being built then you should be fine. If you put them all in and/or the photo's show a workshop with 4 part built cars then there's likely to be trouble ahead.

Been looking at the Canadian rules and if you think ours are a pain you don't know you're born.

Dusty - 18/7/10 at 02:24 PM

A friend of mine who has built three in quick succession for him, his son-in-law and his daughter ran into problems. DVLA tried to class him as a pro builder and refused to IVA. To a lot of wrangling and time before they got done.
Best to keep the builds completely separate. Pics only to show the owner and his car/car bits. Owner to present for IVA and do all the paperwork.
I they start to suspect professional builder you will have no end of trouble.

Strontium Dog - 18/7/10 at 02:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
A friend of mine who has built three in quick succession for him, his son-in-law and his daughter ran into problems. DVLA tried to class him as a pro builder and refused to IVA. To a lot of wrangling and time before they got done.
Best to keep the builds completely separate. Pics only to show the owner and his car/car bits. Owner to present for IVA and do all the paperwork.
I they start to suspect professional builder you will have no end of trouble.


This seems to be where the problem lies. I am the only professionally competent one among us, the other guys have varying DIY skills and abilities and no qualifications.

Someone who has built several cars and run into some issues bought a spare chassis off one of the lads and picked it up today. He expressed concerns about what we are doing esp. as I could end up with more than one of the cars being mine at the end of the day. (Several reasons for this and a whole other can of the wriggly things)!

The guys will be happy to IVA their own cars and I may have a couple to do for myself but they will all be built in the same workshop and with the same tools, equipment and on the same jigs. I guess I had just better make sure there are plenty of decent pics of the boys at work on their own cars and keep our collective fingers crossed!

l0rd - 18/7/10 at 02:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
A friend of mine who has built three in quick succession for him, his son-in-law and his daughter ran into problems. DVLA tried to class him as a pro builder and refused to IVA. To a lot of wrangling and time before they got done.
Best to keep the builds completely separate. Pics only to show the owner and his car/car bits. Owner to present for IVA and do all the paperwork.
I they start to suspect professional builder you will have no end of trouble.


hence why i said to get pictures without the other cars showing.

Also to lock the rest when dvla turns up.

McLannahan - 18/7/10 at 03:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
A friend of mine who has built three in quick succession for him, his son-in-law and his daughter ran into problems. DVLA tried to class him as a pro builder and refused to IVA. To a lot of wrangling and time before they got done.
Best to keep the builds completely separate. Pics only to show the owner and his car/car bits. Owner to present for IVA and do all the paperwork.
I they start to suspect professional builder you will have no end of trouble.


hence why i said to get pictures without the other cars showing.

Also to lock the rest when dvla turns up.


Wouldn't it be likely the same DVLA chap turns up for the subsequent inspections and recalls being there before?

Strontium Dog - 18/7/10 at 03:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
A friend of mine who has built three in quick succession for him, his son-in-law and his daughter ran into problems. DVLA tried to class him as a pro builder and refused to IVA. To a lot of wrangling and time before they got done.
Best to keep the builds completely separate. Pics only to show the owner and his car/car bits. Owner to present for IVA and do all the paperwork.
I they start to suspect professional builder you will have no end of trouble.


hence why i said to get pictures without the other cars showing.

Also to lock the rest when dvla turns up.


Wouldn't it be likely the same DVLA chap turns up for the subsequent inspections and recalls being there before?


Yes indeed! lots of pics of the boys working on their own cars and after IVA the DVLA monkey can look at them at there respective home addresses!

Can you see how this is so annoying though? Without me to make sure that the work is done to a decent standard the cars would not be built as well or be as safe when completed even though they may well achieve a pass at IVA. It's not like the IVA man is gonna X-ray the welds or take off fitted panels are they! The reason the boys are building here is to make sure they get a decent and safe car at the end of the day. It's just more self defeating bureaucracy if you ask me! Rant rant!

l0rd - 18/7/10 at 03:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by McLannahan
quote:
Originally posted by l0rd
quote:
Originally posted by Dusty
A friend of mine who has built three in quick succession for him, his son-in-law and his daughter ran into problems. DVLA tried to class him as a pro builder and refused to IVA. To a lot of wrangling and time before they got done.
Best to keep the builds completely separate. Pics only to show the owner and his car/car bits. Owner to present for IVA and do all the paperwork.
I they start to suspect professional builder you will have no end of trouble.


hence why i said to get pictures without the other cars showing.

Also to lock the rest when dvla turns up.


Wouldn't it be likely the same DVLA chap turns up for the subsequent inspections and recalls being there before?


Does it matter where you keep your car?

matt_claydon - 18/7/10 at 03:46 PM

Seems like a load of fuss over nothing to me.

Unless you're building more than 300 a year, as far as I know the only benefit of being 'amateur built' is that you get emissions based on the date the engine was built rather than the date the car was built. So if you're using modern engines with cats it doesn't matter a jot.

If you're going old-school for emissions then as long as each builder presents their own car there's no questions to be asked. If you present all four yourself then it's hardly surprising they might be skeptical that you are an 'amateur'.

adithorp - 18/7/10 at 07:00 PM

You each fill in your own forms for IVA and send them to VOSA. You each take the car for IVA or have another present it for you. You then each apply for registration to the DVLA (with photos of the build, not showing the others in the background)and take them to DVLA for inspection.

There's no requirement for proof of who actually tightened up the nuts and bolts or did the welding... you built yours, they built thiers.

There's only a problem if you turn up and say you built them all, which would be making things complicated for yourself. They do get suspicious if they think you might be building them for profit/profesionally rather than as an amatuer build for you own use.

adrian