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AC welding: interfering kitchen appliances
Mave - 15/10/12 at 07:46 PM

Hi,
Last week I started welding aluminium for the first time, with my AC/DC Tig welder. When I got back in the house, I noticed that the coffeemachine had thrown out (cold) water, and the Cappuccino foam thingy had turned warm (but the foam-making-thingy was not turning). Both machines were turned off. As I was assuming it could have either to do with ghosts, or the welding, I returned to the garage, and retried. The same happened, and I'm now seriously suspecting the welding machine.
Both the garage and kitchen run on the same fuse.

What could cause this effect, and, more importantly, what can I do to prevent this? Currently I don't dare to turn it on again, as I don't know what the effects are on the rest of my appliances, and perhaps at the neighbours.....

Marcel

Peteff - 15/10/12 at 07:53 PM

Unplug the machine and see if it still does it, I'd say it's a poltergeist

Mave - 16/10/12 at 06:50 AM

Nope, nothing happens as long as I'm not AC welding.

FASTdan - 16/10/12 at 07:37 AM

I've run a cheap chinese AC inverter TIG (so as crude as they come I suspect) at near enough 200A on our domestic supply for 2 years in reasonably close proximity to appliances and neighbours but as yet not had any issues.

Now running an R-tech AC machine on the same supply as our downstairs (non-kitchen) ring main - no issues other than for some reason when I first switch it on it always trips the breaker, and thats just turning the power on not arc'ing up so can only assume its the fans initial start-up. This supply is only a temporary measure as I fully intend on a dedicated ring in the garage.

The only thing I have found is the radio experiences interference during the HF start.

Sorry not much help, but just my experiences to date.

FuryRebuild - 16/10/12 at 08:16 AM

Hi Dan

I had my electrician fit a different class breaker, which is specifically designed to allow the surge. I can't remember which class it is but it's standard. Similarly, while he was in the garage, I had him fit a 45A switched socket, 45A plug and make me a 10m 45A extension cable (which I've not used yet, but I know when I will).

It's worth it for the hassle. And of course every garage looks better with at least one 45A socket.

FASTdan - 16/10/12 at 08:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by FuryRebuild
Hi Dan

I had my electrician fit a different class breaker, which is specifically designed to allow the surge. I can't remember which class it is but it's standard. Similarly, while he was in the garage, I had him fit a 45A switched socket, 45A plug and make me a 10m 45A extension cable (which I've not used yet, but I know when I will).

It's worth it for the hassle. And of course every garage looks better with at least one 45A socket.


Thats interesting as I didnt know any of that was available lol. My garage set up is a very temporary measure (looking to get a unit) as it will be being demolished and rebuilt next year but at the same time Im not sure I can live with having to reset breakers every time. Its weird, its only on the first switch on, was going to speak with R-tech about it just to see what their take on it is. I wouldn't expect the fan to draw more than say a kettle (but im no sparky).

FuryRebuild - 16/10/12 at 08:52 AM

It's definitely the breaker - they are rated for how long you can overload their rated current.

I think mine is a class C and my welder can throw down 200A at full chat.

Again, this is the domain of the electrician who should just be able to tell you straight off. I can put you in touch with mine if you like - he's a top bloke.

And my welder (admittedly not AC) doesn't upset anything.

Who do you get your gas from? I'm still using BOC.

FASTdan - 16/10/12 at 09:17 AM

Yes just speaking to the electrical engineer at work and he's suggested I might be on B rated breakers and to try a C.

Im using energas, iirc its about £45 to refill my midi (which is half a full size one i think) argon bottle and £5 per month rent (not sure how that compares to BOC?). I really need to start using full size bottles though as its cheaper.

Strontium Dog - 16/10/12 at 09:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Mave

Both the garage and kitchen run on the same fuse.


Marcel


Well that's wrong for a start! I suspect you may be heating up some cables when welding. AC welding sucks lots of current. If you have modern MCBs then they either work or don't. there is no in between stage they are either on or off! Fuses can just sit there getting hot as can the wires unless you flow thousands of amps in fault conditions when the fuse will "blow". Your garage/workshop should ideally be on it's own sub main with a distribution board serving sockets, lights etc all via their own protective devices and all covered by a 30mA RCD. I would run a 16A supply just for the welder and connect it using C-form plugs.

FuryRebuild - 16/10/12 at 09:21 AM

I'm on the W cylinder now - not the easiest to get home, but only costs £20 more to fill up, and £1 more per month to rent (about £10 per month to rent).

BOC pressurise their cylinders to over 200psi, so there's lots of gas in there.

FuryRebuild - 16/10/12 at 10:03 AM

I've updated the rules based on this post, and credited Strontium Dog (great name - I loved that 2000AD storyline).

Strontium Dog - 16/10/12 at 02:29 PM

Er, Cheers. Not often I'm credited with anything! And yes 2000AD, I didn’t know what to do with myself when they killed off Johnny Alpha! I got prog 1 as a kid and never looked back, it may explain a lot!