Hi, I just bagged a bargain welder and I am tarting it up (new shroud, tip and liner)
I just wanted to check the shroud I put on. The tip sits JUST inside the shroud, is this correct?

that's about how mine sits.

Ned.

Ideally, if you want the tip to last as it should, it should be further back inside the shroud than that. I usually have the tip around 5-7mm back inside the shroud. This is helpful when tacking as you can rest the shroud on the work to steady it.

hmm ok I may put a couple of washers behind the shround to space it forward a bit

That's exactly what I have had to do in the past!!

If you have any dowty (rubber bonded hydraulic) seals, these are good. Otherwise some slithers of rubber hose.

Conductive washers will transmit current from the live tip holder to the insulated shroud, making it arc if you touch it on the workpiece while welding.... very annoying!

good point mate
I can feel an attack on my garden hose coming on.

Leave it exactly the way it is - perfect

Right, I am maybe about to bow to better judgement...........is that right Mark? I was always told to have the shroud further forward in my fabrication days, but then maybe those telling me didn't know (they were not coded welders or specifically qualified, but then they did an excellent job!)

and I've just fitted a new 0.8 tip after 7 years. They don't make 'em like they used to.

Both of my Clarke Welders and my Dads SIP have the tip recessed somewhat inside the shroud (like this from new).

I bought a new shroud a while back and it was too short, with the result that the tip was just sticking out by about 1mm, and the wire kept sticking in the tip and being a general pain in the arse. Perhaps it's just technique, but I do find it much easier to tack with the recessed tip as mentioned.

[Edited on 24/1/05 by MikeRJ]

This is what confused me. All the big industrial migs (350 amp+) that I have used (well, all 5 or 6 of them, so not that many I suppose!) have had the tip quite well back inside the shroud, and even with the shroud pushed right back (they are quite adjustable on the big binzel torch setups) the tip is still within the shroud by a few mm.

On the other hand, Mark Allanson is a qualified welder, and I'm not, so I am not going to argue on this one!!

Had you got the right size tip? The shroud position shouldn't affect wire feed. My torch is a Binzel and the tip is practically level with the end of the shroud, I even cut one down to get into tight angles. If it works for you do it that way, it's not carved in stone. Too much wire stick out though and your weld will suffer.

quote:

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Originally posted by Peteff
Had you got the right size tip? The shroud position shouldn't affect wire feed.

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Try adjusting the wire feed rate until you get 10mm of wire protruding from the tip at the end of a pass.

Peteff - you are taking locosting to extreems. I change my tips about every 8 hours welding on moderate amps, and upto 1 per hour when welding 250A plus

If it ain't broke . It was getting a bit oversize though.

A tip an hour?? Maybe that's where I was going wrong then as I only used about 4 tips for my entire chassis!! I only changed them when they got all fouled up or when the tip was so badly worn that the wire could move about a bit too freely. My welder is a 120A Clarke and was run at pretty much full power for welding my 2mm thick square section.

Anyway, I got there in the end and was more than happy with my welds. I guess your standard might be a bit higher Mark...

Cheers,
Craig.

You have to remember that there are tips and tips. Minimig tips are tini toy things which need replacing permanently!, 'normal' tips (150A) will last quite a long time when using, say 100A, HD tips (250A) tips (only available in 0.8, but worth getting when chassis welding because the dissipate the heat better) can be used for spray welding, but not for long, then we move into industrial sizes, 1.2mm are twice the size of ordinary tips, but when using 350A plus, can last less than 1 hour when spraying (great fun, you can blow a hole in 10mm plate if you lose concentration!). There are 1.6mm tips, but I have never used them so I cannot comment

i used one tip for the entire chassis! only replaced it the other week! it was proper stuffed mind you, about half as long as when it started. hacksawed it several times...

I too had my shroud quite far back with the tip recessed maybe 1mm or 2mm at most to give me as much weld penetration as possible. I was also welding a little bit closer than the 0.5" that the text books recommend, again to get more penetration. This sometimes resulted in the wire burning back and fouling the tip although most times this would clear as the wire cooled and a quick shake of the torch with the trigger pressed would usually pop it back out. I was using water based anti-spatter spray inside the shroud which certainly helped to avoid the build up of spatter but I would always scrape the inside of the shroud out and brass brush the tip before every welding session.

Anyway, I got there in the end...
Craig.