I quite fancy using TIG rather than MIG. I know it's slower and probably requires more practice but the welds are potentially better and should be neater.

So are these a good deal?
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=91676
http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.asp?PID=27359

Anyone got any experience of Draper/Sealey TIG machines. The 'savings' looks pretty good to me, but if they are crap I'd rather not bother.

(p.s I'm pretty sure they won't do aluminium, but I'll regret that later - can't afford £1k + 3phase in the garage right now )

[Edited on 13/10/05 by iank]

To be honest not a good buy as it does not include things you really need, Torch, regulator, HF start, gas.

To TIG weld cheaply you would be better placed buy buying an old oil cooled Arc welder and seperate torch.

In essence you merely reverse the polarity, ie the torch becomes the earth and vice versa, off you go.

The big problem with these boxes is scratch start, when funds allow you can get an add on HF starter for your arc welder for a few hundred notes.

Do not forget that you will also need Argon, this will put at least another £100 on the bill as you will need to rent a bottle from BOC and the refills cost that. get a full size bottle and a decent regulator, TIG is time consuming and the gas is running all the time (a decent HF box will provide the gas purge valves).

All is not lost though, Quality TIG welders such as the Millers ones although typically strapped for three phase can usually run single, they just draw lots of current so would need to be run directly to the consumer unit with heavy gauge wire. I would save the pennies and get one of these (I was lucky and got a marshall Dynabolt AC/DC unit for £600 off ebay).

Regards Mark

Thanks for the reply Mark.

Welders with HF start don't usually come cheap unfortunately. Best I've found is £420 where would you find a HF unit for an Arc welder? Since as you point out Arc welders cost peanuts relatively.

What exactly is the problem with scratch start, are welds really that much worse?

http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=244

Which comes with a torch so - regulator's is another £30.

So call it £600 all in with gas and auto helmet - ouch

The first thing to look for in a welder is it's duty cycle.
This is how long it will run at a given setting, i.e. 100 amp welder may be 80a @ 20%, or 20a @ 100%.

This means it will run continuous @ 20amps, but @ 80amps will only run for 1 minute per 5 minutes.

So for chassis you need a minimum of a 150 amp machine, IMHO.

As Mark says, realy you want HF start, auto gas flow, post flow, and slope out is nice.

I have a Sureweld 165, but it cost £700.
Paid for itself many times over though, and I wouldn't be without it.
I have a full size argon cylinder on sort of errr, perminant loan and a refill is £26 + vat.

HTH

Paul G

Check out the "Butters AMT 160" ACDC 160 amp 240-v single phase TIG. It comes with reg. & torch and can have a foot control as an extra. Water cooling is also an option if required. It is apparently novice friendly. I found Gary at MigTigArc very helplful (no connection). www.migtigarc.co.uk.

Cheers,
Ken.

I havn't come across "Butters" before but that looks a nice bit of kit Ken.

One thing to remember with welding Al on a.c. is that you need more heat
than the same thickness of mild steel because it conducts heat away so well
even though it melts at less than half the temperature.

Paul G

Air products do a welding gas cylinder with a built in regulator. They charge rental by the day rather than BOC annual charge. ?This is a good deal if you are only needing to weld intensively for for a shortish period rather than every day!

Caber

In answer to your question, scratch start is bad as you damage the tip of the tungsten when creating the arc, It’s not the end of the world, and as the tip erodes you just stop and grind up Which you will be doing a lot of anyway when you first start. As pennies are tight a decent arc welder, torch gas and regulators will get you going

You can even make your own HF start with a car HT coil or magneto, if you search the internet for DIY tig welders some people use 100 amp car alternators as a power source and vary the current by adding resistance to the field coils or simply slowing the rotation speed, Torches go on Ebay for £30, buy a water cooled one and make up a cooler with a central heating pump and reservoir (much lighter in use, for the thin stuff we weld more suitable as smaller electrodes and shrouds).

The reason for going for an old oil cooled arc box is due to price, and duty cycle.

If you watch Ebay and search for TIG in business, office and industrial the arc add on units appear frequently, typically not today ! With a decent base unit they become viable so you have a cheap upgrade path if required.

My first TIG was a cheap Cebora pocket pulse from Ebay for £150 (sold again on Ebay for £250 so a result there) . Tig is much more satisfying than MIG that within months I had justified to myself an upgrade to AC/DC for Ali and got the best I could afford. Since then I have not touched my MIG welder as no splatter, no mess and with practice super looking welds. It’s a whole new world.

scratch n sniff tigs are like chocolate fireguards....funny till it melts