Hi,

I bought a new welder to learn on about a year ago (moved house in between so DIY jobs ect) with a full size bottle regulator. Its now getting to the time where I ought to try to learn welding. Something I have always wanted to do.

I see CO2 bottles at the local tidy tip but the guys there won't let me have one
they think I might blow myself up. (Even though its not flamable I said... but hey)

How have people here got thier bottles as I dont really want to rent one because I intend to keep it for a long time (even if only occasionally used).

Cheers Steve.

[Edited on 13/7/06 by Steve&Steve]

Are you talking about the co2 'Pub bottles' or the full size ones?
If you want a pub bottle, you can talk to your local pub landlord and see if he will lend you one. He can get it refilled as well for a few quid.
You will also need a reg to suit the bottle. There seems to be at least two types for the 'pub bottles' so get the bottle first and if the landlord can't get you a reg, take the bottle along to a welding supplies place and get one to suit.
If your wanting a full size bottle, or one that uses a full size bottle reg, you need to have an account with BOC/Airproducts/etc and rent a bottle off them. Or, talk to a fabrication/engineering shop and give them some beer money to lend you a bottle and pay then to swap the bottle for a full one.
I use a full sized bottle of Cougar5 (IIRC) which is a co2/argon mix. It costs a fraction of argon and is nicer to weld with than co2. I just happened to find an empty full size Argon bottle which I swapped for a Cougar5 one and I pay cash at my favourite fab shop for them to swap it for a full one.
HTH.

I got mine from the local welder suppliers. At work we use them alot so it was a nice word in one of their ears and hey presto my own CO2 bottle. This one is only small, about 700mm height.

It costs me £20 for a refill, i would prefere argon mix as it is nicer to weld but u cant just 'get it filled over the counter' like plain CO2 and therefore requires an account and renting the bottle.

I was told that the bottles to 'own' are very hard to get now as BOC have tried to stop it so they can make more profit renting them, but i would try a few local welding suppliers to see if they have one for sale.

ps, i had the opertunity to have a full sized bottle, free from work. But it was too large for my garage and TOO heavy lol.

Pub gas is a good bet if you can get it. I used it for some time until I could no longer get it. I must have been fortunate as my regulator fitted the bottles. When I could no longer get it, I bit the bullet and signed up with BOC and, unless you can work something on the side with a fab shop there really is no other option. Even if you have your own cylinder I think you will have a problem getting it filled because cylinders have to be regularly safety tested and without the necessary certificates i don't think they will fill them. I have oxy acetylene and pure argon and my yearly rental and filling bill is best not to think about!

John

I ahve one still half full you can have for £35 which is the deposit owed to me by BOC.

BOC have never supplied bottles to be owned by anyone else, I used them for 22 years, none of the suppliers do as far as I know. I have a half size Energas argon/co2 bottle which is rented and costs £57 a year which I look at as just over £1 a week. No big supplier will fill your bottle without a lease agreement so you will need someone who uses the same to do it for you. BOC and Air Products will also charge for admin when you fill up, which is why I stopped using them, Energas is only 10 miles from me so I fetch my own and just pay refill cost. There is a diy place near here in Alfreton that will sell you a pubgas type bottle for £20ish and refill for £15 when you need it. Welduk do it as well, google him he's at Pinxton about 12 miles from me and sells on ebay.


Energas Engweld link

[Edited on 13/7/06 by Peteff]

I get mine from Hewden Hire. I started out renting from the local welding supplier / tool hire place and he sold out to Hewdens and my account was converted.

They have one branch in each area nominated to do welding bottles and they subcontract the supply. They have used AGA, Air Liquide and now BOC. I have a big bottle that costs £45+vat to fill and £1.25 a week to rent so is a lot cheaper than BOC, it may be woth saying to the local BOC you know they supply Hewden Hire at the terms above so they why can't they let you have the same terms.

It may not work in the UK but here in NZ I use an ex CO2 fire extinguisher. BOC's oposition in the CO2 feild fitted it with the correct valve tested it and filled it for next to nothing. I actually don't use it for welding but to gas up my Beer keg as I prefer Argosheild for welding, which I am lucky to get for free through my work.
Bruce.

I have a surplus pub CO2 bottle, if you want to arrange collection ,you can have it.

quote:

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I was told that the bottles to 'own' are very hard to get now as BOC have tried to stop it so they can make more profit renting them,

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All major gas companys charge rent not just BOC.
Cylinders are not cheap and need to be refurbed and tested on a regular basis.

Safety is very important. 50 bar CO2 and 200-300 bar Argon mix Cylinders are potentialy dangerous and you would be the first to complain if one ruptured in your Garage. If you could seen pictures of incidents where this has occured you would understand how dangerous they can be. (No i cant post any on here)

Also the rent is charged to ensure the prompt return of cylinders. If it is empty and on rent you will bring it back. If there is no rent charged you dump the thing.
The company then has a minimum £80 asset lost.
It is an easier way to try and control stock.
Cylinders are crucial to a gas companies and they need to be kept in circulation not kept in a garage because they cant be arsed to take them back.


I enjoy visiting this forum for useful help and info but sometimes people put real c'',,p on here.
And yes i do work for a Gas company.
Thanks for your misinformed views MOORON.

Rant Over.

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Steve&Steve - 14/7/06 at 12:05 AM

Oooh Lots of replies

It sounds like people have tended to get bottles via 'contacts' in various ways.

Is the 'pubgas' still a useable option then? I had been lead to believe that a % of nitrogen (i think) had been added to this for the last few years; making it unsuitable, I may have been mislead on a roumer here by the sounds of it (can anyone clarify this?). I dont really have a friendly local (its a bit dodgy/scummy about here for me) so I always go into leeds center for pintage. So don't think the local would loan me a bottle but sure they would take cash for an exchange refill if I manage to source a pubgas bottle.

I would prefer to have a normal small/medium bottle that I might be able to get refilled over the counter as some seem to, But is sounds like getting one might be hit or miss. (I'll check welduk out as suggested)

Fire extinguishers!! sounds interesting but getting a valve and refills might be tricky here?

Thanks for the offers from 'Confused but excited' & Andy but both are a bit far to collect, I dont know what limitations couriers have about transporting gas cylinders.

Well thanks all, I'll have to think this over or wait and see what comes up.

Cheers, Steve

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cryoman1965 - 14/7/06 at 07:24 AM

The two types of Gas bottle found in a Pub are,
CO2- 50 bar, Black Bottle, Mail Thread on Hand valve.

CO2- N2 % Mix, 200-220 Bar, Grey Bottle coloured shoulder(Green i believe,) Female Thread on Hand Valve.

The N2 is added to the Dispence to improve the Product Quality. (Beer taste Better) It also helps stop beer fobbing saving the Landlord a fortune on wastage. (Just a bit of useless info)

Hope this Helps.

You want the black the Black ones.

Cheers

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dnmalc - 18/7/06 at 09:09 PM

Gents Bottles need to be pressure tested at regular intervals I have one that is out of date and the local fire extinguisher people wanted £60 min before they would even consider filling it. My solution was to go to the local calor gas depot. they supplied me with a filled bottle to the new colour code system (another reason that old bottles will not be filled in the future) for £15 +vat they are happy to exchange it for a full one for the same price. So i would suggest don't bother with old bottles whenyou can get a recently tested and filled bottle.

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