Soon gonna have to do some plumbing on my new house.

For some reason my girlfriend thinks that the 2nd bedroom (The Abu Ghraib Suite) actually needs a radiator.

So question is, do I learn to solder properly will all the associated risks of leaks etc. Or do I use pushfit?

And if I use pushfit, do I use plastic or copper?

Pushfit somehow seems a bit of an anateur's bodge, but even a plumber friend of mine recommended it and says it's what he uses.

Thanks!

James

Personally I'd learn to solder, nothing is as good as a soldered joint you have done yourself. Honest!

My cousin has been CORGI registered for a while now, learned to solder and stuff but my soldered joints are tidier than his but he swears by End Feed Joints (no rings of solder) inside. The no-solder type are very slimline and perfect if you don't like the visual side of joints like pushfit type which; if you can see them; are Fugly...

DIY - you know you wanna...

Steve

[Edited on 30-4-07 by Hellfire]

I would go for soldering as I don;t trust the push fit.

If you buy the preformed/presodlered pipes - mnore epsneive than those you add solder to, then it is a oush fiut and heat.

once you cna see the solder coming out all aroudn the joint menas it is done.

secret is to clean the metal up nicely and use flux.

... now let's wait for someone to come along who really knows what they are talking about.

i fitted a shower at xmas and lernt to solder at the same time, again make sure they are shiny clean and flux before, and dont go to mad with the heat

I tried push fit copper for an inaccesible joint but found real trouble in keeping it square to insert the pipe. I nicked the o ring and it leaked.

You can't beat soldered joints IMHO. Clean both the inside of the joint and the outside of the pipe until shiney with wire wool. Then a smear of flux on both surfaces again. Ensure you have no water at all left in the pipes otherwise it is difficult to build up enough heat.

Make sure you get it really hot then just dab a little solder on the joint and if alls well then it should run fast around the full joint. Bingo jobs a good un!

Steve

try and get is an electric solder pliers, B&Q used to sell them with various sizes of ends to suit different pipes. it just clamped around a presolder joint leave, remove once the solder comes out.

i was in b&q and they where selling liquid solder, squirt on twist the fittings and done, that is with copper pipe and end feed.

[Edited on 30/4/07 by Aboardman]

There is really nothing easier than making a good solder joint. As someone said clean with wire wool or emery cloth inside the fitting and outside the pipe. Flux both well but not too much. Heat the joint on the fittings keeping the flame a little ways away from the joint itself. Touch the solder against the joint and when the joint is hot enough it will start to flow into the joint. Keep a damp cloth near and when the solder fills the joint wipe around the joint quickly with the damp cloth.

I quite like the Plastic stuff - contrary to most of the opinion on here.

It is very easy to install - particularly in awkward spaces, you don't have to be too accurate with it as it 'gives' a bit. It doesn't and creak and bang like copper can do when it heats up and cools down, and cos it's bendy you use less fittings.

The best bit is if you are in a hard water area it doesn't fur up inside.

Just my 2p worth

Cheers

mark

Re-plumbed my house a few years ago. Used soldered & push fit. Here's my 2p:
1/ If a soldered joints going to leak it's going to do it straight away so at least you'll know.
2/ Push fit is quicker & you don't need to worry about setting fire to the house. BUT:
3/ It's a lot more expensive & the only 2 leaks I've had post install have been on push-fit.
4/ If I did it again I would use soldered where possible.

As a CORGI registered bodger, its advisable NOT to use wire wool any more as if any strands of the wire are left on or in the joint it can rust and cause it to leak.
We use cleaning strips or pads that are abrasive and a bit like the Green side of a sponge pan scratter.

Soldiering as said before is extremely easy if the correct preperation work is done and it makes a much neater job than the plastic and needs less supporting as its not flexing all over the place.

The lengths on of plastic pipe are cheeper than copper but the fittings are ALOT more expencive! than end feed copper (but as mentioned before you can bend the pipe) although with a bit of skill and a spring or pipe bender you can bend copper as well.

n o ones mentioned less heat loss through plastic?

I have had a bunch of problems with push fit at about 10 years old. The O rings had hardened and started to leak.Had to replace them all as i couldn't get access to replace with soldered joints so will change again in about 8 years to save arguments with downstairs neighbours!

Caber

Push fit is fine. I use Speedfit all the time where it cant be seen. No fire risk in lofts and can be 'threaded' through tight areas like cable. However you should always use inserts, preferably the superseal ones.

Anywhere pipework can be seen I use copper with end feed fittings and/or machine bends.

Thought should be given to pipe runs. If its running mains pressure then its not to much of a problem, however gravity fed runs should really have machine bends rather then fittings as the water will flow better. Cold form bends can be used with plastic to give what is in essence a machine bend.

As for heat loss, any longish run of pipe thats carrying hot water should be lagged anyway if its in a cold area. There are also regulations now relating to maximum lengths for hot water runs.

Anyway, to sum up, Speedfit where you cant see it, (but use inserts), and copper where you can see it.

quote:

---

Originally posted by caber
I have had a bunch of problems with push fit at about 10 years old. The O rings had hardened and started to leak.
Caber

---

The pastics were the same as far as I know. The difference was one was a barrier pipe. If you look at a cross section there were two white rings sandwiching a black one, the black bit was the barrier and this is to stop oxygen entering.

For plumbing on show i prefer soldered, neater profile if you do it right.

I also like plastic push fits. Some have a screw down ring that prevents the joint pulling apart as well. My hidden bathroom piping will be done in push fits.
Some will say push fits are a bit of a bodge - certainly not true. Industrial machine manufacturers have been using push fit pneumatic connections for years with no issues at around 80 to 100psi.


For soldering my best investment was a pro soldering torch and proper pipe splices etc. Make the job so much easier. After that clean the pipe and clean again. Tub of flux and some extra plumbers solder. makes first job a tad pricey but you will have the kit for years.

I prefer plastic push fit stuff, but then I would, as I design and test the stuff! 'o' rings are now designed to last 50 years, so that's most people (over 30) dead before you hit a problem.
Yes there are different types of plastic pipe, barrier and mono, but there are also different plastics, Polybutylene (PB) and cross linked polyethylene (PE-X). PB is the better option IMO as it's more flexible.

HTH

I've always been wary of pushfit for some inexplicable reason, but I think any new work I do will use it now.

The benefits have already been listed, and as Darren said, we use pushfit in terrible conditions at work for pneumatics, chemicals and water with absolutely no problems at all.

Okay, thanks for the advice everyone.

It started out with everyone favouring soldered copper.

So I ordered that.

Now the last few posts have been pro-pushfit.

Doh!



Cheers,
James

James,

feel free to pop round and you can see what i've used and where. plastic is ok if unseen, boxed in or buried in a wall (copper needs coating as gets eaten by concrete/cemet/masonary mix) but anywhere you can't get plastic stuff square or it's going to be seen use copper, pre-soldered fittings are so easy, even I can do it, just clean up joint area, assemble with flux and heat the pipe until the heat draws the solder through, just like wiring with a soldering iron which I'm sure you've done!!


Ned.

ps i've used the wickes push fit stuff which is just up the road from yhour new place isn't it? pushfit is quick and easy but you don't want to have to see it as the joint are big and cumbersome.

[Edited on 2/5/07 by ned]