Hi All,
Noobie welder here so if I have something wrong here, shoot me!
I can't decide between a MIG welder or a DC TIG welder. Am I right that DC TIG cant do Aluminium? I am about to start the book build, so not sure
if I would need to weld Alu anyway??
Everyone tells me that TIG is much more difficult for a begininer, but I think there's much more control with TIG?
Would appreciate people thoughts/experiences. I have about £200 to spend 
there's been a lot of things i've needed to weld, but i've not 'needed' a tig welder yet.
for a beginner, Mig's fine, don't think you'll really need a tig for anything. even ally can be done with a mig (but not quite as well)
I don't think you'll get a TIG worth having for £200 but it would be handy to be able to weld ally.
I think a lot of people on here would choose MIG to weld up the chassis anyway as I believe it's quicker and you should get a reasonable MIG for
your budget
In an ideal world you'd have both!
Cheers
Mark
Trust me buy the mig and concentrate on the build. far easier to master than tig and quicker to boot, as you've sussed out, DC is only good for
steel and stainless, you don't need to weld ally to build a book car. £200 won't buy you a decent tig anyway
Al.
Originally posted by Beardy_John
Hi All,
Noobie welder here so if I have something wrong here, shoot me!
I can't decide between a MIG welder or a DC TIG welder. Am I right that DC TIG cant do Aluminium? I am about to start the book build, so not sure
if I would need to weld Alu anyway??
Everyone tells me that TIG is much more difficult for a begininer, but I think there's much more control with TIG?
Would appreciate people thoughts/experiences. I have about £200 to spend
quote:
Originally posted by mookaloid
I don't think you'll get a TIG worth having for £200
For 130 pounds you can easyly buy an TIG machine, inverter mono phase.
i would buy TIG, saying that MIG is the best for an chasis.
TIG is also expensiver.
Tks
I start thinking that TIG would be better, but this has confirmed that maybe MIG would be easier to start with.
Anyone suggest a good starter set for reasonalbe money? Always think Ebay can be a bit hit and miss.
clarke ones are pretty decent.
Clarke welders (machine mart) seem to be the best balance between quality/price for hobbyists.
For all the advice you need have a look at www.mig-welding.co.uk have a look in the forums, if you message
"Weldequip" he'll advise you and sell you a welder cheaper than most places and it'll be delivered, top man.
Mig welding is good for railings and gates. It's quick, easy to stick things together and welds tend to look good. Modern DIY machines are very
cheap. But not many skilled welders would choose to use Mig. It is very easy to be fooled into thinking that you have a good weld when in fact you
have only achieved what is called a cold lap. The weld bead has little or no penetration.
Second hand DC scratch start Tig machines can be found cheaply on ebay. The technique is not difficult to master the end results will always be
better than Mig.
For any welded component that I had to rely on I would prefer Tig
oohh, now I am confused again.
I have read that both have there downfalls. MIG has problems with gap filling and filling in blown holes. TIG is difficult to master but produces a
better weldin the end.
I have been looking at the Rehmann 160A and 200A inverters on Ebay for a while and seem ok for the money.
when you think about it, almost everything in life is a compromise. if there was one type of welding that was better than the others, without
exception, there would only be 1 type of welding!
its not that mig has cold lap weld problems, its that the person welding isn't doing it right 
with practise though, you'll learn when to
see the signs of when the weld will blow through. you'll not weld perfectly straight off
It really all depends what your welding, and the skill of the bloke holding the torch. A badly Tig welded chassis will be no better than a badly Mig
welded chassis.
IMHO as a beginner to welding, you have a better chance of picking up Mig technique faster, and it will be more than adequate for welding a locost
chassis.
Gap filling is easier with Mig BTW.
Al.
Just to add, look at 90% of bought seven chassis and you will find they are MIG welded, MK, ST, Westfield etc etc, can't be that bad can it? or
maybe they only use unskilled welders 
Originally posted by Beardy_John
TIG is difficult to master but produces a better weldin the end.
[Edited on 22/11/07 by Wadders]
I used a cheap TIG for my build. I personally don't like MIG or Stick welding and was much happier using gas before I was introduced to TIG. My
welding technique is much more gas like than it should be but I do like the control of heat and filler separate this allows you to be more
controlling. The TIG puts a lot of heat just where you want it and once you get in the swing easily gets good penetration.
I was given a lot of guidance at the beginning by a very experienced TIG welder and I would suggest you get some expert guidance at the beginning. In
terms of equipment I wish I had bought a better set with HF start and AC so I could do aluminium. Scratch start is a bit of a pain and you end up
spending a lot of time grinding tungstens as they get contaminated , however it is so much nicer to work with, no splatter, no slag to chip off and
nice clean results.
Good luck whichever you use.
Caber
quote:
Originally posted by Beardy_John
I have been looking at the Rehmann 160A and 200A inverters on Ebay for a while and seem ok for the money.
For a first timer mig, its eaiser and faster, downside is splatter, ie little blobs of weld that burn you.
Tig is a joy when you have the hang of it but is best suited to horizontal work but you can weld in a white suit and not get dirty !
If going mig make sure its at least 150 amps, the clarke 150te is a good budget choice.
Also gases, Mig is okay on CO2 so a pub bottle can be a very cheap source, I prefer the CO2/argon mix but you need to open an account with BOC etc and
rent a bottle. Better welds though.
TIG is pure argon so no cheap supply of gas, you may end up paying £150 for welder + £150 for the gas, it takes much longer and the gas is more
expensive.
Whatever you need to avid those little bottles, they will cost a fortune in the end, get a large one and proper regulator, saying that I have a 1/2
cougar for Mig so I can lump it around for field work.
That sounds like a bad plasterer not a welder. Mig is going to be easier and cost less. If you have £200 go with mig.
Having experimented with MIG during my first build I now intend to try TIG next time. There are quite a few cheap (<£200) rigs on eBay and a few
forum members are having good results with them.
After comparing the two types of welds I now regard my MIG as nothing more than a posh hot glue gun as you are literally pouring hot metal onto
cold. TIG is more like a true (gas) weld and will be stronger imo.
Go with MIG.
I have both, and use both. (I also have stick and access to gas)
I would select mig for "most" jobs, because its fast, easy and when set up right gives a perfectly strong job.
I "intended" to weld the spaceframe for my current grasser with the TIG set, but its just so slow that I ended up migging it all.
If you have plenty of spare time then TIG is fine, but bear in mind that, including prep time, to join two pieces of 25mm box section in a tee, will
take probably take 5 mins with the TIG and 1 min or so with the MIG.
I use the TIG for sheet work and anything that needs to be very accurate and look neat that can't be dressed.
Another vote for MIg... Tacking up is MUCH easier with MIG, you can hold a part in position with one hand and tack with the other, to tack with TIG
you have to clamp everything.
Cheers
Fred W B
A diverse set of responses!!
Seems about 50/50. MIG is easy for the beginer and quick. TIG more difficult but produces a better weld once mastered. I am in no rush with this
build.
907, might take you up on that offer. U2U on the way!!
Don't forget to take into account that mig will run on pub co2, tig requires argon and the extra expense that goes with it
As a foot note to my above post:
Chinese TIG inverters have an awful reputation for reliability. I do not know if this bad rep is deserved or not. I know it works today, and would
give me lovely welds if I knew what I was up to.
If it went pop tomorrow, I dont think I would replace it with a proper one at £500+, I would buy a 151TE.
If it lasted a year and I got good at it, I would have to replace it.
Hopefully I will not be faced with this dilema.
Tig is better, but more expensive, and requires rented bottles of argon (disposable bottles are not worth the effort)
Mig and a bottle of pub CO2 is cheapest and probably easiest.
I have had nearly 40 years weilding a soldering iron. I cant get on so well with my Mig, but the Tig seems to be easier for me. I'm used to
having a heat source in one hand and the solder (filler) in the other hand, perhaps thats why I seem to find it easier with the TIG.
Buy a Low end commercial Mig rather than a expensive hobby range Mig.
Buy a good model. and preferably with a Euro Torch fitting.
My Mig is not that good , a SIP 150.
however in 8 years it has saved / made me far more money than it cost (£225 - 8 years ago).
I run a pub CO2 bottle. Argo shield is Far better (Argon / 5% CO2) or Cougar from Air Products)
Tig needs pure Argon and is more expensive, but IMHO give better results.
DC TIG wil do Mild and Stainless Steels.
AC is required to so Alluminium as well, but costs twice what a DC TIG set will cost you.
My Rehmann 200amp DC cost me £197 inc postage off Ebay. I have seen them from £150 to £260, so dont bid too high, as they come round frequently, and
the delivery was quick even from Germany.
A small argon bottle is £80 per year rent and £35 refil. However the BIG bottle is same rental and £65 refil but has about 5 times the gas in it, and
SAME rental from Air Liquide.
Seems to work OK, but if it goes wrong I am Fsek'd
However, Bang for buck its good value and works well. Less than a Pond (£) per Amp.
So I will try not to abuse it too much! Not like I have with the Mig.
hope this helps
[Edited on 24/11/2007 by wilkingj]
quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
Tig is better, but more expensive, and requires rented bottles of argon (disposable bottles are not worth the effort)
Mig and a bottle of pub CO2 is cheapest and probably easiest.
Buy a Low end commercial Mig rather than a expensive hobby range Mig.
Buy a good model. and preferably with a Euro Torch fitting.
hope this helps
PS wilkinj means £80 a year rent for the argon bottle, not £8!!!!
The argon will end up costing you about £15 to £20 a month, however you do it.
CO2 will set you back £25 a year at most using pub bottle from a frendly gas distributor.
Cheap gas is out there, I get mine from an independant place.
I get my argon at £4.50+VAT per month and £14+VAT per refill. Contract is month by month so no tie ins.
If you haven't welded before buy a MIG (Clarke 150amp), if you have and you dont like MIG try a TIG.
After todays sorry tungsten shortening efforts, perhaps I should think about a nice new MIG myself.
On your budget just go for a decent MIG -- Clarke MIGs are a good budget buy DON'T bother even looking at SIP (aks Cosmo).
The low end hobby TIG inverters advertised usually don't come with a TIG torch or regulator you only get a stick electrode holder for normal
arc welding.
£200 pounds won't buy much in hobby tIg welders but it will buy a very decent MIG welder with cash to spare.
The main difference between the two is control TIG gives you much more control over the weld pool --- but MIG is also a very good welding process
for chassis building quick easy.
[Edited on 24/11/07 by britishtrident]
Britishtrident sums it up perfectly, as do most of the replies to your question.
MIG may not have the glamour of TIG but all of us trust our lives to MIG welding every single day and we seem to be OK.
TIG is a git when you have a hangover or an unsteady hand, it is also more expensive and slower.
EDIT - do not buy less than a Clarke 150amp, I love the way my Clarke 100 amp welds thin stuff (1.5mm butt weld) but not anything thicker than that.
An extra £50 would have bought me a 150 amps, I regret not spending that.
[Edited on 24/11/07 by Mansfield]
Thanks guys for all your comments. It has really confirmed what I sort of knew already. Going to 907's tonight to try his TIG to see if I can get
on with it If not a Clarke 151TE will be on my Xmas list from Santa
(p.s. Mansfied, nice avatar )
I would love to see some pictures of your trials John. Could you post some up when you have had a go?
The avatar is a Gemma Atkinson tribute, when she gets kicked out I will return to a more PC picture.
I'm Gobsmacked. The pics below speak for themselves.
1. First EVER go with a Tig. A simple run on a sheet foxes most people.
2. Five minutes later. Butt joint in 3mm plate.
3. Ten minutes later... First ever fillet joint.
Well done John
Paul G
Rescued attachment Johns-1st-welds.jpg
jesus christ! thats brilliant!
that fillet looks nice!!
Get a tig!
Yes, get a tig, get a tig, you are born for it!
Big thanks for 907 letting me have a go this evening. I have amazed myself at how easy I found it!! Massive confidence boost to get on
and get cracking.
Thanks to all for the nice comments and helpful posts.
Will now be hunting round ebay for a suitable "stater" TIG set
(p.s. anyone got a spare to sell???)
reckon you've been having us on! your a pro really
Maybe 907 has two logins.
quote:
Originally posted by Mansfield
Maybe 907 has two logins.
Next time John comes over tell him he needs to weld in stilettos for grounding reasons.
That should put your boss off.
If it doesn't - YOU need a new job.
quote:
I have amazed myself at how easy I found it!! Massive confidence boost to get on and get cracking.
I now consider myself a TIG welder quote:
Originally posted by Normsthename
Don't forget that the welder you were using was correctly setup by someone experienced.
That is lot of the technique!
When you buy a new shiny TIG welder you will have to set it up from scratch!
Not trying to put you off, but I know a well setup welder is 60% of the skill!
Two years ago I bought a TIG welder (£1500) for my business and I had never welded except a little stick and MIG
After a lot of practice, holes and pigeon sh*t
Only problem with the cheap TIG plants are the scratch start etc.
Pay the extra and get a HF start and also AC/DC so you can weld anything
Andy
)
Thanks wilkingj, good advice, and if my proper computer ever comes back to life soon I will find the vid on bittirrent.
Now the hunt is on for the TIG and gas bottles
But in the mean time, on with the decorating. (sigh.....i hate polyfilla)
quote:
The Video got via Bit Torrent... worth the slow download of the 500Mb file. It IS WORTH IT.
Well, took the plunge and a Rehamn 160 amp TIG is on its way from "ze Germans" !!!
Went to my local BOC trade counter today and got various bottle sizes and prices, just wondering who else is around Suffolk that I could get my Argon
from???
Well done John.
Btw, I smile now every time I see your avatar.
Atb
Paul G
TIG on brother.
When it arrives cut the European plug off and fit a normal 13 amp one. Wiring colours are as this country.
Look forward to seeing your results, although the last ones left me feeling a bit inadequate.
David
BOC are probably the most expensive.
Look up Air Products and Air Liquide as suppliers (well their agents!)
or better still any independants tou can find.
Hi all. Know its been a long time since I started this post, but progress has been slow However, the practice is going well and have made my
first object, a flat table for welding approx 600mm sq so should be big enough for wishbones etc, etc. Pictures posted in archive, and a few of
the better ones below. Comments welcome
Description
10mm plate to 1" box
Description
Trials on 1" box
Still getting the odd blobby weld but getting much better
TIG settings
Argon - 14 l/min
1.6m tungsten (red)
Amps - around 110 for plate to 1" & 90 for 1" to 1"
quote:
Originally posted by Normsthename
Don't forget that the welder you were using was correctly setup by someone experienced.
That is lot of the technique!
When you buy a new shiny TIG welder you will have to set it up from scratch!
Not trying to put you off, but I know a well setup welder is 60% of the skill!
quote:
Originally posted by Beardy_John
Hi all. Know its been a long time since I started this post, but progress has been slow
Still getting the odd blobby weld but getting much better
TIG settings
Argon - 14 l/min
1.6m tungsten (red)
Amps - around 110 for plate to 1" & 90 for 1" to 1"
Yeah, the tube I "aquired" from work was very rusty and I did take the worst of with a flap disk. Just turns out my best weld was on the
rustiest bit
The regulator is an Elga Optimator (that i also "aquired" form work ) and i reckon its quite accurate.
The point on the tungsten does need a lot of re-pointing.
Will get some larger tungstens, turn the gas down and let you know how it goes soon !! Thanks for the comments !!
190192556248 copy paste in ebay cracking bit of kit (fully skilled welder)