ned
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 07:39 AM |
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Disposable gas bottles -advice?
I recently decided to stop the contract I (well still in my dad's name) had with BOC after I finally used up the bottle I had. I figured for the
£60 rent + £30+vat per bottle it'd be cheaper now I'm not doing much welding to use disposables as and when required.
I've since bought the small regulator and dispoable co2/argon bottles from halfords at £7 a pop. I was previously using argoshield light from
BOC (assumed the argon/co2 mix disposables would be the nearest?), the BOC bottle was about 3' tall.
I know that the disposable bottles are small but was suprised at how quickly they run out, is this normal? I bought a bottle last night to do some
welding for a mate and basically running my 160amp welder on roughly half power with a normall 'hiss' of gas I barely got the job done
(about 4' of seam welding some thick plate) before it aerobarred and I realised I'd run out of gas.
I thought it might be that I had the gas pressure too high as the small reg has no gauge but tried previously with it turned down to a quieter whisper
and I get rubbish welds. I do find generally that I have to hold the torch closer to the workpiece to get the same shield from the gas. I also seem to
be getting much more spatter than I used to. I've done a fair amount of welding on a neighbours landrover lately so it's not that
I'm out of practise.
Are there any tips or tricks or is this just the way it is with these little bottles? I appreciate the volume of the bottles is much smaller but they
are still meant to be 65 bar odd so would have thought they'd last a bit longer?
cheers,
Ned.
[Edited on 31/8/07 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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JAG
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 07:44 AM |
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Ned,
I've had a similar experience - the disposable bottles are crap. I usually get about 20 minutes from one. I had to use several of them when I
welded my stainless steel exhaust manifold.
I now buy a 2 foot tall bottle of CO2 (not quite so good as Argo/CO2) from my local tool shop for about £8 a throw. These last me ages as I only do a
small amount of welding now the cars built.
Justin
Who is this super hero? Sarge? ...No.
Rosemary, the telephone operator? ...No.
Penry, the mild-mannered janitor? ...Could be!
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smart51
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 07:53 AM |
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I've done 2 or 3 metres of weld on the bottle that came with my Clarke welder and theres still some in it. Machine Mart bottles some with 2
levels of fill, depending on how much you pay. Perhaps the halfords ones are the same.
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RazMan
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 07:58 AM |
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I agree, the disposables are about 15-20 mins of welding at best. I switched to pure CO2 (also in disposable form) as it was cheaper due to the higher
pressure that these bottles hold. It makes a 'harder' arc but you get used to it.
Also I found that the seals on these cheapo regulators are not very good and you really need to turn them off between welding sessions, even if its
only a few minutes, or the bottle will just magically empty itself.
[Edited on 31-8-07 by RazMan]
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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TGR-ECOSSE
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:06 AM |
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As above i have found that the seals were not very good and the do last about about 20 mins. As you have been welding a landrover you must be an
expert like me at welding rust and fresh air 
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r1_pete
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:13 AM |
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Yep, the disposables are a waste of space for more than an occasional tack, better sticking with the smallest BOC argo light and know you can get the
job done.
Pete.
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02GF74
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RazMan
Also I found that the seals on these cheapo regulators are not very good and you really need to turn them off between welding sessions, even if its
only a few minutes, or the bottle will just magically empty itself.
I also remove the regulator from the bottle when not in use as this is another way for the gas to magically exit the bottle.
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takumi
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:33 AM |
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I've suffered from the magic emptying bottle trick.
Absolutely frustrating..
I've rebuilt my mini regulators (after buying a replacement, which leaked also, thinking the first one was duff) with ptfe tape on all the
threads, and surprise surprise no leaks. Chuffed. 
I was previosuly unscrewing the whole regulator off the bottle, which waste a puff of gas each time..
RobinHood 2B 2.0i pinto, Keihin 38mm Carbs, lightened flywheel, O'Mori remote filter kit, 10 row oil cooler. Modified head, 10.2cr, special
valves FR22 cam, 4- 1 header.
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ned
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:38 AM |
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Thanks guys, nice to know it's not just me then
The landrover was an early disco boot floor - looks like patchwork now as he didn't want to put his hand in his pocket for a new floor.
Think I might ring round a few local tool shops and see what bottles they have available.
Halfords have three different disposables: pure argon, pure co2 and co2/argon mix(20/80% iirc) but they are all the same size bottles, both volume and
pressure, just over 1 litre @ 65bar iirc.
cheers,
Ned.
[Edited on 31/8/07 by ned]
beware, I've got yellow skin
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RazMan
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 08:46 AM |
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Ned, Try your local welding supplier for pure CO2 in the disposable bottles. They are made from steel (not ally like Halfrauds ones) and hold nearly
twice the pressure iirc.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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dan__wright
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 09:11 AM |
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see if you can get a smallish co2 bottle on eBay, my mate managed to get a pub one and gets it filled at the local motor factors, about £10 to us.
FREE THE ROADSTER ONE…!!
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wilkingj
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 09:21 AM |
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We have a Wilco Car accessory shop round here
linky
Ours do a CO2 3ft bottle for £19 per refil. cost £40 to get, but no rental. not the cheapest, but certainly cehaper than a BOC account. not as good as
argoshield, but just turn the power up a little, as CO2 is a colder gas.
Or..
Tap up your friendly publican for a drinks CO2 bottle. £7 off my local, until they changed landlords 
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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AdamR
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 10:28 AM |
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Ned,
I have fully welded my whole chassis - including some seem welded panels - AND done some extensive patching on my Lada.... and I'm only on my
4th disposable bottle. That's over a period of about 3 years, so no probs with the seals either! I get the 600g CO2 bottles from Machine Mart @
about £8 a pop.
I can only suggest that all the people that have been disappointed with disposables must have been using CO2/Argon mix, which is thinner and therefore
doesn't last nearly as long. I get good results with CO2 so I'm happy using that, though I do have a couple of bottles of Argoshield
I'm saving for any welds that I want to make especially pretty.
Adam
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02GF74
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 11:53 AM |
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are the halford one aluminium? (pretty sure MM ones are steel).
so what could an empty one be used for - oil catch tank? super duooper lightweight fuel tank?
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caber
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| posted on 31/8/07 at 04:22 PM |
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I have given up with BOC was getting Oxy Acetelene from them. I am now using Air Products who rent by the day and have bottles with built in
regulators. I am on pure Argon for TIG welding. I will return bottle at end of build and go get another next time I need to weld, much cheaper than
BOC or little bottles that only did me 20 mins or so.
Caber
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