Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 12:06 PM |
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Paint
Not sure if this is the right section but never mind.
I am really getting confused about what paint to use. I was going to use cellulose but that is now 'old school' and not many places do it
now.
I have been to my local Car Paint Warehouse and the guy is really helpful but said that I should use acrylic (read 2-pack). I keep getting so much
conflicting information about the stuff, some say it's fine others say you will die in short order if you don't wear full breathing
aparatus etc.! 
When I mentioned this to the guy in the paint suppliers, he said that while that may have been true years ago, the agents that are in the hardener now
are much improved over the old stuff. He also said that as long as you use the specified filter mask and comon sense it is OK for home use (he also
said that he wouldn't be allowed to sell it to the public if it wasn't relatively safe).
I know he has a vested interest in selling me the stuff, but he is also right that a lot of information on t'internet is old stuff just
'cut-and-pasted' into the sites, and there are always way too many 'experts' out there.
I intend to spray outdoors (in a gazeebo with air vents) and do not intend hanging around in there any longer than is necessary. I would be really
grateful if someone 'up-to-date' in the painting trade can give me some sound, and impartial advice pleeeease!!  I am nearing the end of
the build and don't want to stall trying to decide what paint to use.
Thanks in advance, and sorry for the essay 
John
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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nick205
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 12:54 PM |
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Are you painting the whole car or just parts of it - say the wings for example.
I ask, because you can get pretty good results these days with rattle cans, which might ease your decisions.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 01:01 PM |
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Nope, the whole car. I normally use rattle cans but I think this might be a little OTT for them
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 01:21 PM |
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you can still buy cellulose from halfords. about £30 per litre last time i got some
as for spraying 2k, theres a sticky about it on here somewhere. people say you'll be killed in seconds. hmm, not convinced personally.
i've been around people spraying 2k and i didn't know, didn't have a mask on, i'm still alive breathing was a bit off for a
few days though.
local paint shop still sell cellulose thinners, fiver for 5 litres? but also had masks certified for 2k paint, same as the usual rubber masks with 2
filter cartridges on the sides. said there was no need for air fed masks now, unless you're working in a paint shop, spraying all day every
day
edit
here you go
Gerson 2K Paint Spraying Respirator Half Face Mask | eBay UK
[Edited on 5/5/11 by blakep82]
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IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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rallyingden
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 01:43 PM |
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^^^^^ as above
IF this was your day to day job then air fed is the only way but for one offs the masks with dual filters for 2k will suffice.
This is all in my opinion of course.
I actually used water based basecote with celly based lacquer.
RD
[Edited on 5/5/11 by rallyingden]
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HAL 1
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 01:49 PM |
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The sticky is in bodywork and exterior, read all about it before making your decision, i erred on the side of caution and used air fed mask
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 01:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by rallyingden
^^^^^ as above
IF this was your day to day job then air fed is the only way but for one offs the masks with dual filters for 2k will suffice.
This is all in my opinion of course.
I actually used water based basecote with celly based lacquer.
RD
[Edited on 5/5/11 by rallyingden]
I'm still undecided, the more I research/read, the worse it gets One site said about the suppliers that offer the filter masks and quoted
"it's not them doing the spraying", which is true. I also see that most of the HSE etc. sites and some manufacturers of masks say
definitely NO filter masks for 2pack. I don't want to find out the hard way so I suppose at the end of the day I either get an air-fed mask or
go water-based basecoat and celly lacquer.
Where would you recommend getting basecoat from?
JB
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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blakep82
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 02:00 PM |
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if you want to use cellulose then, you can still get it from halfords. i haven't tried 2k yet, might do soon though, but quite happy with
cellulose really
________________________
IVA manual link http://www.businesslink.gov.uk/bdotg/action/detail?type=RESOURCES&itemId=1081997083
don't write OT on a new thread title, you're creating the topic, everything you write is very much ON topic!
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 02:03 PM |
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Why water based?? I suspect that is harder to use at home than more conventional paints. You can still get solvent based basecoat and celly from lots
of places.
If doing a whole car I would see if I could borrow an air fed mask, or make one (small variable power vacuum cleaner (or similar) on blow, hose pipe
and a full face visor edged in foam works apparently)
2K stuff is easier to use. I have used jawel paints on ebay. Their mixed to colour stuff isn't at all bad. Their very cheap, premixed 2k is a
bit "thinner" but is very cheap.
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macc man
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 02:37 PM |
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I painted my car in cellulose a couple of years back. Still looks good. I recently bought sone cellulose an paid £30 for half a litre mixed. Would
have been half that in 2K. Perhaps it has had its day and we must move on. Shame really.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 02:53 PM |
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Thanks for the link Blake
I notice that they have put on their 'get-out-clause' of government legislation. Maybe that is the type of mask that the Car Paint
Warehouse guy was telling me he sold (about £15 and good for 100hrs of use).
I sometimes wonder if it's worth all the hassle!
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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deltron63
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 06:24 PM |
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Dont forget that the air from most compressors wont be clean enough for an air fed mask.
Ours at work go through a freezer unit and filters.You dont want to breath dirty oily air.
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snakebelly
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| posted on 5/5/11 at 06:25 PM |
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if its your first big spraying project then personally i would go celly all the way, not based on stealth and hafety but on the finish.
Celly is far more forgiving and even horrible runs can be flatted out and a good gloss restored with polishing, rectifying any mistakes in 2K will be
much more difficult if not impossible.
Use celly and build it up to a good thickness, let it cure for at least a week then flat back and then polish, even if it looks flat and poo
initially, flatting and polishing will have it looking fan dabby dosy.
I have sprayed over 10 cars as home diy projects over the years in celly, 2k and synthetic truckcoat type paints and the best finish af all in a diy
setup has been celly.
Just my ten penneth worth
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BobM
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| posted on 6/5/11 at 06:02 AM |
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Medically speaking your risks are related to your total lifetime dose of the nasties.
My take on 2 pack is that if I was using it all the time I'd want all the protective gear including an air fed mask. For occasional use my view
is that the risks are very low so long as you take reasonable precautions. I make sure I'm covered - overalls, hat, gloves etc. and make sure
I've got a well fitting mask. The masks are effective enough that I can't smell the fumes when I'm spraying. Once I've
finished I get out of the garage, leave the door closed for half an hour for the paint to harden then open the doors and windows and leave it for a
while before I go back in to play.
Another point I would make is that no-one seems to be taking into account the risks using cellulose and there's a general assumption in threads
in here that it's safe. Do you imagine the solvents from that are going to do you any good? 
I disagree on the argument that cellulose is easier. The 2 pack high build primer is fantastic at covering minor imperfections and I find getting a
decent finish from the gun much easier using 2 pack. You're less likely to get runs with the 2 pack, but when I've had runs they're
easy enough to flatten off with some wet and dry. Most of the guys I know who've used both wouldn't go back to cellulose.
I don't find looking at what HSE say terribly helpful. I suspect if a Health and Safety inspector saw me working in my garage (or in my garden
or decorating the house for that matter) he'd have a dicky fit and I suspect I'm no different to most of you. I don't take
unnecessary risks but there's a world of difference between an occupational environment and your own home/garage. For context I'm a middle
age doctor who's built one house and 3 cars and still has 2 lungs, 2 eyes, 10 fingers and 10 toes
Not very Locost but very BEC
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 6/5/11 at 08:18 AM |
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Thanks for that Bob
It's nice to get a good old fashioned 'there are good bits and bad bits'. I agree with reference to the HSE site, I think the
problem is that there is so much of a " can I make a claim" culture now that everything is nasty! Even conkers at school has been banned
for god's sake!!
From what I can gather, the guys who have had experiences from 2K have either not had the gear on at all, or had a badly fitting maske etc. The guy at
the Car Paint Warehouse was very passionate about the way 2K is being treated on the internet and forums, as he rightly said, there are a lot of
people who put in words what they have 'heard' and this can be very off-putting. His words to me were "you use whatever you want at
the end of the day" which is fair enough, he wasn't all hard-sell to get me to buy his products.
I must admit, I have my doubts about cellulose too after using it many times, even with care it can still leave a very nasty residue in the old
hooter, so what is it doing to the other bits?
As I already said, I intend to use a Gazebo in a yard and i will probably also run an old cooling fan as an extractor. The masks the paint shop supply
are quoted as suitable for 2K, and with the sueing trend as it is I doubt they would do that if there was any doubt? (I am starting to sound like I am
trying to convince myself it'll be OK).
I think I will have butchers at the masks, ask him some more questions and then probably go with 2K. As you say, if I can smell fumes then it
ain't doing it's job, I guess I'll try it with something less dodgy first to check the fit.
Thanks for all the input guys, and feel free to add as you see fit
(worrying) John
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 6/5/11 at 08:25 AM |
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Of course the other approach is to use 2K primer/filler (huge advantages over celly stuff, it doesn't sink, can be flatted next day if used at
home, unlike celly which can sink after a few weeks )and then topcoat in celly. But if you have used 2k, you are unlikely to want to go back to
celly. At least I don't
Other "top tip" is to use acrylic stopper for all those tiny imperfections as you go. Fantastic stuff, makes getting a very good finish
much less grief than the other stoppers I have used.
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r1_pete
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| posted on 6/5/11 at 08:42 AM |
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I'm not getting into the 2K charcoal filter vs air fed mask debate again, I was behind the sticky and reccomend you read all the links,
personally I wouldn't go near airborne 2K without full skin coverage and an air fed full face mask.
To help you with your quest, try NU Agane paints, they often have deals on common
colours in celulose, I just bought 10L paint and 10L thinner from them for £150 delivered. His 5L kits (5L paint 5L thinner) are about £80.
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Daddylonglegs
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| posted on 6/5/11 at 09:34 AM |
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r1_pete, looks like a good selection of paints etc. but his feedback isn't too rosy? I'd hate to order a colour form there only to find it
ain't what it says on the tin.
It looks like the Midget is winning at the moment......
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r1_pete
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| posted on 6/5/11 at 10:28 AM |
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I'd agree with the comments about eMail, they don't respond, but on the phone they are freindly and helpful, I've done three cars
with their paint now, and the colour has been good, the MG in my archive is their Olde English White....
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