dern
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| posted on 5/10/04 at 08:36 PM |
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Welding advice please
I've just started teaching myself to MIG weld with a clarke 151TE and would appreciate some advice...
I'm using .6 wire and have the problem that when I try to remove the weld tip from the torch it often snaps off. I then have to drill out the
remains and use a tap and die set to clear out the thread. Is there something I can put on the tip thread to ensure its easy removal when I finish?
I practicing 25mm/1.5mm box ERW to itself. My welds look a bit messy but they are getting tidier but, when I look on the inside of the box, weld
penetration isn't that good. I can see the bead appearing in a few places on the back of the join but not many. I leave about a 1-1.5mm gap
between the pieces... is that enough? What adjustments can I make to improve penetration such as increasing the gap, slowing down, turning up the
power, increasing or decreasing wire speed. All settings are as per the manual that came with the welder. I'm welding with argon mix and the
sound I get is that sizzling bacon frying sound. The welds I make are strong and I cannot break them with a hammer... the metal around the join starts
to bend first.
Many thanks,
Mark
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Chris_R
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| posted on 5/10/04 at 08:49 PM |
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If you're not already, you could try pulling the tourch as opposed to pushing it. This concetrates the arc on an already hot bit of metal and
improves penetration.
Copper grease might sort your tip out, said the bishop.
[Edited on 5/10/04 by Chris_R]
A bit of slapstick never hurt anyone.
http://www.chris.renney.dsl.pipex.com/
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 5/10/04 at 09:51 PM |
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Wind the power right up, blow loads of holes initially, and adjust you technique (speed of pass) to compensate, you will soon get the hang of it. When
you have the amps and wire feed correct, it will sound like frying bacon!
Leave NO gaps, if you do this when making your chassis, it will end up like a corkscrew.
I suspect you are overtightening your tips, they should be just nipped up, only a fraction over finger tight.
Remember if you are blowing holes while practicing, your amps are correct or over. If you never blow a hole, you probably are welding too cool, and
making weak welds. When tacking, always use full power (I think 140a for your welder)
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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dern
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 08:52 PM |
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Thanks
Thanks for all the tips, just been out in the garage practicing away again.
The tip with the copper grease worked a treat, thanks for that. I drilled out the old tip, cleaned the thread, popped a new tip in with a touch of
copper slip grease and out it came after an hour of welding 
I turned the power up to max and no matter how fast I moved I blew holes in the 1.5mm box so I turned it down one from max (max/2) and had the wire
speed on 8 (of 10) and that seemed much better. If I went too slowly I blew holes and if I went a bit quicker I had a lovely moving weld pool under
the arc. I stopped leaving gaps too.
The only problem is that I'm still not seeing a bead on the inside of the join. Here are some pictures I took of my last two welds after some
practice (hope they aren't too big).
This shows the welds I made from the outside (note I cut off the bits welded to the horizontal piece after the weld was made so I could see
inside)...
...and this is from the other side...
...and this shows the inside...
...I can see I am getting full penetration on one side of the left join in picture 3 (and I suspect that was because I was welding the join right at
the end of the horizontal piece if you see what I mean) but that doesn't happen that often... is this normal.
Once again beating the daylights out of the join with a large hammer doesn't break anything.
Any opinions/advice/critical-critique is most gratefully received.
All the best,
Mark
[Edited on 6/10/04 by dern]
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dern
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 09:06 PM |
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This is what happened when I slowed down a fraction to get better penetration...
Mark
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Bob400
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| posted on 6/10/04 at 10:38 PM |
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Looking at your pic's and reading your posts it appears by the amout of spatter and lack of penatration you are welding very hot with thin wire
try 0.8 mm wire this will allow you more control and if u use the rightward techque (push ) you will increace your penatration. Practice makes
perfect.
hope this helps
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dern
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 09:09 AM |
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Ok, thanks. I'll get some .8 wire and some bigger tips on the way home and try again later.
Cheers,
Mark
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blueshift
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 12:52 PM |
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Mark will just come back on and tell you to use 0.6mm That's what he told me. I use 0.6mm and full power now as I was told, like a good boy.
making some nice welds.
I'm no welding guru but your welds are looking pretty good to me. Perhaps a little wandery off line and uneven speed, if you get the piece into
a really comfortable position and use your other hand to brace the torch against the piece or workbench, it helps steady things up.
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dern
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 01:14 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by blueshift
Mark will just come back on and tell you to use 0.6mm That's what he told me. I use 0.6mm and full power now as I was told, like a good boy.
making some nice welds.
Ok, I'll give that another go at full power.quote:
Originally posted by blueshiftI'm no welding guru
but your welds are looking pretty good to me. Perhaps a little wandery off line and uneven speed, if you get the piece into a really comfortable
position and use your other hand to brace the torch against the piece or workbench, it helps steady things up.
The movement along the seam
isn't that natural at the moment and I find if I whack up the power I have to go much faster than I'm comfortable with. I will go back and
practice again on full power though.
Thanks,
Mark
PS. I did try to get on a course but my timing was out so they'd all started and there was still people who had their names down just in case
someone dropped out
[Edited on 7/10/04 by dern]
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blueshift
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 05:36 PM |
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Practise makes better. I had trouble moving as fast as I needed to on full power at first, now it's not a problem. welding across a 25mm bit of
tube takes about 1.5 seconds, I'd guess.
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Bob400
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 05:41 PM |
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with your mig on full power and .6 wire you will more than likley be spray transfering not easy to control .
ps. im a weld engineer may be i know a little about it
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 05:44 PM |
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Mark, your welds are looking good.
Minor corrections are needed, now you have the hang of making a pass, practice getting them on target! - the wire needs to directed directly into the
joint, you cannot get penetration if the weld is 3mm away (if you havent got 9EW lens in you mask - get one). Keep the torch close to the work, your
last shot show a bit of carbon burn, which could be the protective oil on the ERW, or more likely you torch angle is slightly off and/or you are too
far away from the weld.
The weld with the hole is the best, when making a pass, watch the edges of the weld pool, when the definition between the pool and the work starts to
disappear, blow through is imminent - just release the trigger for a split second and carry on. this is just enough time to cool things down a bit so
you don't blow a hole.
I use 0.6mm, it gives you more control on 1.6mm steel, 0.8mm is OK, but can be a bit clumsy, you loose the fine control on wire feed speed and you
cannot weld slowly with it.
Don't get me wrong, I would happily drive a car with welds you have made already, there is not a bad weld you have shown, just some are better
than others.
Try experimenting. Using full power, try welding with the wire feed way to fast and way too slow. Weld around the problem, see how your technique
improves. Try decreasind the power to about half and set the wire feed to match and weld REALLY slowly - you will learn more by doing this. A bit
like driving a car in the wet with slicks - not recommended but you learn a lot!!
Keep me posted
Mark
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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dern
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 08:40 PM |
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Thanks very much guys and thanks for your encouragement Mark.
I'm taking a night off practice tonight as I'm full of cold which an hour of welding last night didn't help (the cold didn't
help my aim either I imagine  ). I'll be back after a bit more practice and let you know how I get on.
All the best,
Mark
PS. I'm not sure what an 9EW lens is compared to the 11EW lens that came with the helmet I bought I'm afraid, I'm using a Translight
2131 auto darkening helmet which came in a bundle with the welder. Am I right to assume the 9EW must let more light through to enable me to aim
better?
[Edited on 7/10/04 by dern]
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blueshift
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| posted on 7/10/04 at 09:58 PM |
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yup, 9's lighter. I have 9 and 10, find the 9 a little dazzling on full power close up, but easier to see what I'm doing to start in low
light. I also have a cheap auto-darkening one with adjustable shade, but it's not much cop compared to glass
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Peteff
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 12:31 AM |
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Speed too slow on full power= burn back and melted tip. Back to original problem tip stuck in and threads knackered. If it's too fast or not
earthing it will push back at you. I've had the same tip in mine for three years now and not needed to remove it but I had to undo it to fit new
reels. How tight are you putting them in? Finger tight then nip with pliers always works for me. I have a shade 10 in a flipdown helmet, nod and it
drops down. Use both hands to steady the gun with some decent gloves.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 06:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Speed too slow on full power= burn back and melted tip. Back to original problem tip stuck in and threads knackered. If it's too fast or not
earthing it will push back at you. I've had the same tip in mine for three years now and not needed to remove it but I had to undo it to fit new
reels. How tight are you putting them in? Finger tight then nip with pliers always works for me. I have a shade 10 in a flipdown helmet, nod and it
drops down. Use both hands to steady the gun with some decent gloves.
I didn't mean THAT slow!!
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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madforfishing
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 09:32 PM |
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Dern, a '9' lens certainly helps to see what is going on in the weld pool. It was a revelation when I changed mine.
I learned to weld down in the Falkland Islands while detached there. The Station Workshops at Mount Pleasant had the Dogs Doo-dahs Auto darkening
masks which made life well easy - very adjustable. Apparently the cheapo auto masks are bobbins. See posts posts on here.
New lenses are cheap as from Screwfix or your local welding suppliers - check the Yellow Pages.
If you are stuck with your old lens for now - try using an inspection lamp pointing at the work. It should brighten things up a bit so you can see
what's happening to the parent and weld metals in the pool.
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blueshift
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| posted on 8/10/04 at 10:20 PM |
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yeah, I have a little 300w halogen inspection lamp on a stand from screwfix, only costs a few quid. if I'm welding anything tricky (wishbones)
it gets the full glass + lamp treatment.
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dern
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| posted on 9/10/04 at 08:34 PM |
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I think I'll get a halogen lamp to help my aim. I made a cube out of the 25mm box today and it looks pretty good. Half the welds look great and
I rushed the others so they look a bit shitty. The cube is dimensionally correct though with all angles bang on so that's encouraging.
I'll make another one or two to make sure my technique is consistant. I'll post a picture when I make one I'm really proud of (until
then the grinder is my best friend )
Thanks for everyone's advice
All the best,
Mark
PS. Bit of kit of the day was an old hat... you only burn your head once, ouch 
[Edited on 9/10/04 by dern]
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blueshift
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 03:49 PM |
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Nice one. remember to practise a few angled joints as well, inside and outside angles need their own techniques. maybe have a practise welding
vertically up and across too (I'm rubbish at it, should have practised more.. you'll need it when you start fully welding)
maybe some round stuff too, t-joint if you're feeling keen?
ditto on the hat thing I've gaffer taped a tea towel to my full helmet, protects from spatter and hangs down the back to stop light getting
in round the sides, useful with your back to the sun.
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Peteff
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 04:50 PM |
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Fire retardant teatowel I hope.
I was round at my mates' today and he was grinding and welding quite happily. I was stood talking to his brother with my back to the action when
his brother suddenly dived into the shed and retrieved a box of rags which were well and truly alight They were next to a half full 5 gallon oil can
so he was lucky someone was there.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 10:02 PM |
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A common story, Pete. Another good tip is to finish welding 1/2 hour before you pack in for the night. You would be amazed by what can be smouldering
in a corner, unoticed. the 1/2 hour will give time for you to check everything is safe.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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wilkingj
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 10:26 PM |
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Dern / Mark,
You are not the only one on here who is learning to weld (or do other jobs that require knowlege or skill). I have read most of the
welding threads, and pick up bits here and there.
Always remember that when you ask a question or ask for help, you can bet you last Quid on the fact that there are others on this forum, that want to
know the answer to the same question.
Best Regards
Geoffw 
PS... It looks 10 times better than my welding. What Gas are you using?.
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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blueshift
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 10:56 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Peteff
Fire retardant teatowel I hope
Nope, the only retard is under the towel.
Maybe I should use something else. how about a paraffin soaked rag?
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Peteff
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| posted on 11/10/04 at 11:06 PM |
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how about a paraffin soaked rag?
Do your socks with it as well and when the rag catches fire you can hotfoot it out of there . My worst one was spatter in the ear, it fizzed for
ages. I don't know how it got in there but it was scary and painful. I still have an old leather skull cap from years ago but I don't tend
to worry about my head so much nowadays, I'm grey so if it goes I might look younger.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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