v8kid
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 11:46 AM |
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Double click MIG trigger plus post flow
Hi Chaps I need some guidance.
In the process of swapping over from a hobby MIG torch to a Euro torch and discovered I can't half squeeze the trigger for gas and fully squeeze
for gas plus current because I had to add a gas solenoid control for the Euro torch whilst the gas control valve in the hobby MIG is in the torch.
Is there a control circuit somewhere on the web where I can have one click and hold for gas and 2 clicks and hold for weld. It would also be nice if
on release the weld stops but there is post flow.
Searched in vain.
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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blakep82
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 01:31 PM |
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I think what you're really looking for is a pro machine!
1 click for gas, 2 click for wire, I don't know of any machine that gives you that. Can't think why you'd need it either. Although
some esab machines do have a slight delay between pulling the trigger and the wire feed starting, gives a slip second of pre flow, but not selectable
of adjustable, but that's on synergic machines, and I suspect its more to do with the machine setting itself up for each weld
Post flow on a mig, not really needed IMO, but I think some machines do it, but its not really needed like with tig.
I think by the time you've made all these changes, it'll only be the casing that's original from your machine, you'd end up
changing just about everything else inside.
What machine do you have?
[Edited on 9/1/16 by blakep82]
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Slimy38
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 02:21 PM |
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Actually, my cheapo Wolf MIG can do exactly that!! The gas valve opens before the electrical contact closes, so I can run the gas for a second or so
before the weld. I find it's quite effective when filling in an angle where the shroud is too big to get in a proper place, a second or so of
gas seems to fill the void before the weld strikes. If I just pull the trigger in one it tends to spit.
I could probably just turn the gas up a little bit, but it seems to work well for me.
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Brian R
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 04:30 PM |
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Cheaper non euro torch welders usually have a manual gas valve in the torch itself rather than a solenoid operated one in the machine. The gas pipe up
the umbilical is live all the time once the gas bottle is turned on. The gas should purge when pressing the trigger even if the power isn't
turned on.
I expect there is a slight delay/ gap between the gas valve and electrical switch on pressing the trigger that allows the gas to pre and post flow.
A euro style set up only has a switch in the handset which operates the wire drive, the main welding current and the gas valve all at once.
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theconrodkid
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 05:39 PM |
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what Brian said ^^^^^^
who cares who wins
pass the pork pies
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v8kid
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 06:45 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R
Cheaper non euro torch welders usually have a manual gas valve in the torch itself rather than a solenoid operated one in the machine. The gas pipe up
the umbilical is live all the time once the gas bottle is turned on. The gas should purge when pressing the trigger even if the power isn't
turned on.
I expect there is a slight delay/ gap between the gas valve and electrical switch on pressing the trigger that allows the gas to pre and post flow.
A euro style set up only has a switch in the handset which operates the wire drive, the main welding current and the gas valve all at once.
Err thanks I know that it was in the question. I already have a hobby welder and they all work the same way 
The question is how do I get the functionality at the trigger to switch the gas on separately from the weld when using a Euro torch. I have heard some
professional welders have this function and am looking for the circuit.
I already have a Cumo 180 welder with the wire drive fedby a separate 24v laptop power supply and have the euro torch so it makes sens e for me to do
this, I'm not advocating others to do this simply looking for a solution for my particular case that others have already solved. I really
don't want to argue the pros and cons of professional welders versus crappy welders.
Ta for the replies
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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907
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 07:21 PM |
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You don't need to switch the gas on separately. You are looking for a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.
The wire feed and the gas solenoid switch on at the same time on virtually all MIG welding machines.
There is a peculiarity to the system that does work indirectly as your hobby MIG did.
Because the gas release solenoid is in the machine the pressure builds up between it and the reg on the cylinder before
the trigger is pulled. We will call this the primary line. The secondary line is from the solenoid to the shroud, or gun.
On release the build up of pressure travels up the secondary line as a wave giving the newly started arc instant coverage.
You will hear this as a whoosh that quietens down as the gas flow equalises between gas in the primary and secondary lines.
When you stop pressure builds again ready for the next arc start.
This is assuming that along with the "pro torch" we also have a pro reg and flow meter to match.
HTH
Paul G
(Pro welder)
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motorcycle_mayhem
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| posted on 9/1/16 at 07:54 PM |
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Again, unsure that you've got a problem, unsure you need a solution.
I have an adjustable pre-flow on my heavy MIG (255TE), no post flow. Neither on the smaller machine (Migatronics 5000 - Euro conversion).
Pre and post-flow is, of course, available and adjustable on my TIG machine, where it is required.
Do you have a special requirement on the MIG, heavy shielding for a stainless/aluminium application? Otherwise, run with what you've got. I
can't see you have a problem.
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owelly
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| posted on 10/1/16 at 11:28 AM |
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If you're determined to have the pre and post gas function, how's about a foot pedal to open the gas solenoid untill the torch trigger is
pulled. Or use a pair of relays? First click operates the gas relay and gives a live for the feed relay on the next click.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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indykid
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| posted on 10/1/16 at 11:49 AM |
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I understand your problem. It's probably not something you'd want for a MIG set doing production work on clean steel, but I often end up
using the shielding gas to extinguish flames when welding sills and such because trying to blow it out with the mask down never seems to work 
I started looking for a two position momentary microswitch for you yesterday but came up with nothing. If there's space in the torch though,
I'd look to fit a second microswitch next to the original but offset forward slightly, so that engaging the first switch puts the gas on, then
pressing the trigger further engages the second switch that switches the welding current. You could probably implement similar with a second push
button on the side of the torch wired to the gas solenoid in parallel to the main switch wiring (but with a diode) that only opens the gas solenoid.
Similar to owelly's suggestion, just packaged slightly more ergonomically.
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NigeEss
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| posted on 10/1/16 at 11:14 PM |
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I'm with the OP on this, my Clarke 160 allows gas only and it's a function I like and would also look for if
I were to change machines.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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907
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| posted on 11/1/16 at 08:15 AM |
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Dubai hotel
I said just pull the trigger HALF WAY
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v8kid
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| posted on 11/1/16 at 04:08 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by owelly
If you're determined to have the pre and post gas function, how's about a foot pedal to open the gas solenoid untill the torch trigger is
pulled. Or use a pair of relays? First click operates the gas relay and gives a live for the feed relay on the next click.
Ta Owelly that's the answer - why didn't I think of that?
Cheers!
You'd be surprised how quickly the sales people at B&Q try and assist you after ignoring you for the past 15 minutes when you try and start a
chainsaw
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owelly
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| posted on 11/1/16 at 04:44 PM |
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As my Granddad said: Always give the laziest man the hardest job, and he'll find the easiest way......
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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