kit Car KIDDA
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 posted on 15/12/05 at 11:10 PM |
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second engine how to link up
can anyone tell me how i either link up the second engine? or how it drives my wheels
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froggy
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 01:48 AM |
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practical performance car has an article about twin bike engines out on dec 29 or have a search on this topic, a recent thread went into this in
detail and will give you a rough cost of a finished twin engined installation
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zzrpowerd-locost
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 08:32 AM |
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Here we go again pmsl  
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 09:02 AM |
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I hope your a qualified aerospace engineer
why not just put 1 engine in for now
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 09:27 AM |
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well put
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 10:25 AM |
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Agreed.
It will be much more complicated and expensive than you probably think, you're going to need to budget at least £4-5k plus engines, over and
above the normal cost of a single engine build.
As mentioned above, have a look at this thread for starters to decide if you
really want to go that route.
[Edited on 16/12/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 10:45 AM |
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Also, in another thread I notice that you said you've nearly finished the chassis? If this is the case then be prepared to be chopping half of
it all up again because you wont fit two ZX9s into a standard book chassis, at the very least you'll need to significantly shorten the passenger
footwell to make space, plus strengthen up various other parts to take the power.
[Edited on 16/12/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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gingerprince
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 12:13 PM |
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Daft Idea
Whilst we're all having a laugh, I'll share an idea I had a while ago. I'm not an engineer so it's probably heavily flawed, and
someone's probably thought and dismissed it before, but: -
How about a tandem bicycle approach whereby each engine is one of the pedallers. Each engine is hooked to the propshaft with a ratchety-sprockety
freewheel type thing (like bike pedals) to transmit the power.
In this case there's no real need for the engines to be perfectly synchronised. If one engine starts to pull quicker, the other one is under
less load and can therefore catch up, and vice versa.
 
Daft twin-engine thing
First obvious flaw is the lack of engine braking but I'm sure you guys can pick plenty more holes in this daft idea
Open season...
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 12:22 PM |
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Thats basically how the transfer boxes work, but without the freewheeling capability. Syncronising the power isnt the issue because if one engine
produces more power, has more throttle open, or in a different gear, it will just drive the other engine a bit as well, dont forget they are joined
together after the gearbox so each engine doesnt have to be at the same rpm etc.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 12:45 PM |
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its a shame you cant do one simply ie like my go kart was twin engined
so basically get the most powerful carb engines available but try and find the smallest hence keeping space and wiring loom simplicity
then two cogs on a back drive train use the original bike gearing etc twin up a gear shift mechanism that activates both
that would be fun
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joolsmi16
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 01:55 PM |
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twin engines
I'd personally opt for turbocharging a large capacity bike engine, I think for about £3300 you get 300bhp from a blackbird not to mention what a
busa can cope with.
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carnut
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 02:04 PM |
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Main problem I see with having 2 engines is when you change gear. If one engine misses a gear as they sometimes do, something will break.
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 03:27 PM |
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do they turbo the r1 carb engine? if they do "show me the way and Ill buy one today"
I know they do the injection
anyone got any figures for r1 (maintaining some kind of reliability)
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colibriman
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 04:45 PM |
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Holeshot turbo'd a carb'd R1 for a customer of mine, It made 225bhp.
If someone shows you how, I'll sell you an engine today......
need a bike engine? - www.colibriman.com
SVA ready Mk Indyblade possibly for sale.....if the offers good...!
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 05:34 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by carnut
Main problem I see with having 2 engines is when you change gear. If one engine misses a gear as they sometimes do, something will break.
Yep, but only because of over-revving, ie each engine can be in different gears and nothing will break, its only when the engine in the lower gear
hits its limiter and the other engine then pushes it over the limiter that you have problems. I guess with a bit of electronics you could alleviate
that problem by making something that if the revs of one engine exceed a certain threshold, the sparks to both engines are cut. You might even be able
to use an off the shelf rev limiter to do that if you could somehow splice in the feeds?
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 05:42 PM |
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Last I heard Jack at Holeshot was actually more keen on turbo-ing the carb R1 engine than the injected one. A mate of mine was looking into it and
wanted to go EFI, and Jack wasnt really that keen - I think possibly because of the slightly odd design of the R1 throttle bodies where they have a
vacuum slide a bit like a carb.
[Edited on 16/12/05 by ChrisGamlin]
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kit Car KIDDA
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 07:19 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
I hope your a qualified aerospace engineer
why not just put 1 engine in for now
why settle for 1
formula 1 performance
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kit Car KIDDA
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 07:30 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
Agreed.
It will be much more complicated and expensive than you probably think, you're going to need to budget at least £4-5k plus engines, over and
above the normal cost of a single engine build.
As mentioned above, have a look at this thread for starters to decide if you
really want to go that route.
[Edited on 16/12/05 by ChrisGamlin]
why 5k extra only got 9500 in total
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 07:33 PM |
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Im smelling a wind up here but anyway
In reality they aren't a lot quicker than a standard busa, maybe half a second quicker to 60, a second quicker to 100, you add 150bhp to the car
but also add 100+kgs in weight so the gains arent as high as you first think, certainly not "F1 performance"
A 250bhp turbocharged BEC would be just as quick in a straight line and quicker round a track (much less weight), it would also be much more driveable
and probably much more reliable too, but pays your money and takes your choice, just dont be suprised if you spend more time with it off the road in
bits than actually driving it .
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ChrisGamlin
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by kit Car KIDDA
why 5k extra only got 9500 in total
Read the thread I linked to and you'll get the idea, £3k for the transfer box alone assuming you dont want to risk being a pioneer and make your
own, plus twice as many exhausts, twice as many rev counters and loads of other extra stuff like oil pumps and coolers for the transfer box.
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kit Car KIDDA
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 08:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChrisGamlin
quote:
Originally posted by kit Car KIDDA
why 5k extra only got 9500 in total
Read the thread I linked to and you'll get the idea, £3k for the transfer box alone assuming you dont want to risk being a pioneer and make your
own, plus twice as many exhausts, twice as many rev counters and loads of other extra stuff like oil pumps and coolers for the transfer box.
cheers mate
..............two turds and a brain go into the pub,ask landlord for three pints and three packs of crisps ................
lanlord replies i'm not serving you lot,
you two are steaming and your out ya head!!!!!!!!
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zxrlocost
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| posted on 16/12/05 at 09:15 PM |
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anyone got any links to an r1 turbo kit car
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Winston Todge
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| posted on 17/12/05 at 12:29 AM |
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There is this lot... http://www.mc-xpress.com/
But also this lot do a supercharger for a later injected version... http://www.dynomite.co.uk/Dynosite/HTMLfiles/home_fin.html
I am personally going the NOS route for a little more power on demand for the R1... Detailed on... http://www.r1-forum.com/ Tends to be a little slow
with all the sponsors banners... and http://www.turbobits.co.uk/acatalog/sitemap.html
30 to 50 bhp under the button with very little reduction in reliability, if set up correctly.
Chris.
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gazza285
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| posted on 17/12/05 at 01:17 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by zxrlocost
Its a shame you cant do one simply i.e. like my go kart was twin engine
You can do it simply. There's no room for the engines side by side, so they go one behind the other but offset. A prop runs from the front
output shaft using the standard prop adapter to a centre bearing.
Fixed to either the front or rear of this centre bearing is a sprocket of the same size as the output of the second engine to which it is fastened to
by a chain drive. The output of this centre bearing is fastened to either a sliding prop joint for use with a live axle, or to a fixed length prop for
use with a diff. If that costs £4-5k then I'm in the wrong business.
DO NOT PUT ON KNOB OR BOLLOCKS!
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kb58
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| posted on 17/12/05 at 04:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Winston Todge
But also this lot do a supercharger for a later injected version... http://www.dynomite.co.uk/Dynosite/HTMLfiles/home_fin.html
Chris.
This is an example of the goal being lost in the drive to get there... 200hp for nearly $8000 + the cost of the R1 engine???
Ugg, no thanks. In fact this makes a good argument *for* using two R1 engines...
[Edited on 12/17/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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