02GF74
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 12:01 PM |
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MIG welding - anyone seen this?
looks useful: http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
go on, have a read.
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craig1410
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 12:09 PM |
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Hi,
I'm no welding expert but from reading a few bits on the site I'm not sure that the author is either.
Cheers,
Craig.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 04:30 PM |
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I've seen this site before and have wondered about some of what he says. Some useful things but some that seemed a little iffy to me.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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meany
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| posted on 23/8/06 at 09:08 PM |
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yep i have seen this.
what do you reckon is a little iffy...or wrong?.
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clementine
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| posted on 24/8/06 at 05:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by craig1410
Hi,
I'm no welding expert but from reading a few bits on the site I'm not sure that the author is either.
Cheers,
Craig.
Would much appreciate specifics - which bits look funny to you guys? I tend to act on constructive feedback.
The author.
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Wadders
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| posted on 24/8/06 at 06:48 PM |
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Have only quickly skimmed through it, but from an ex welders perspective it seems ok, didn't pick up on any obvious howlers. If you were just
starting out it would make useful reading. To be fair welding is 95% practice anyway. but if you can't get anyone to show you the basics in
person (best way to learn) then a website is probably the next best thing.
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JoelP
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| posted on 24/8/06 at 06:59 PM |
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it is possible that craig just means you dont come across as an expert, not because you say anything wrong, just because you mention practising before
a weld etc, and the way it is worded. Not high and mighty like a 'lecturer' type would sound. The mig tutorial seems pretty much spot on
to me, but im no expert anyway.
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craig1410
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| posted on 24/8/06 at 08:02 PM |
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Hi guys,
Well this is an awkward moment isn't it... 
Clementine, firstly can I say that from a usability and clarity point of view your website is very good. It is uncluttered (unlike mine...) and is
very well laid out. Also, can I make it clear that I mean no offence in what I said above and to be fair, in retrospect, I think maybe I was a bit
harsh. At the time I posted I didn't have much time and it was a bit short and sharp. For that I apologise.
However, what I was getting at is exactly as JoelP has already suggested. I felt that you came across as someone who has recently learned to weld
(maybe in the last 2 or 3 years say) and have developed a technique which works for you and have tried to articulate this on your website in a way
which is "uncomplicated." I have a couple of books on welding and although these books are also aimed at beginners and improvers, I was
given a strong feeling that the author's had been welding for years and years.
Having said that, it could be that it was your intention, to take the place of a "Mig Welding For Beginners" book and you may be a more
talented writer than I am giving you credit for and have altered your language successfully for this market.
As JoelP says, there is nothing "wrong" in what you say but it does come across as if you have a sound but perhaps shallow knowledge of
welding. If I was a better writer (and webmaster) then it is perhaps something that I could have written after building my Locost.
Does that make any sense?
Cheers,
Craig.
[ps. I just looked at a bit more of your site and clearly you have been welding for a lot longer than I gave you credit for. I guess my hypothesis
that you had altered your writing style for the beginner may have been right. I only looked quickly at a few bits of the site before jumping to my
original conclusion...]
[Edited on 24/8/2006 by craig1410]
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clementine
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| posted on 25/8/06 at 02:49 PM |
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Thanks - that's very useful feedback. If you get that first impression then a lot of other people will too (which would be a bad thing).
The information is shallow. The learning mig page should have tips on setting up the welder, choices of wire size, power settings and wire speed etc.
It should be several pages long and go into a bit of detail. Haven't had a lot of time over the last year (got involved in an Aston Martin
restoration which took far too long), but have made a lot of notes. The Aston has gone now so I'll have some time.
The writing style is something I'd not thought about. Don't want the site to read like a textbook, but equally don't want the
information to come across as doubtful. I'll keep an eye on that.
I do appreciate the honest feedback. It's difficult to get feedback like that as people are worried about offending, but it's the most
useful. Any other ideas would be much appreciated, or if I've missed your point do say.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 25/8/06 at 02:57 PM |
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Just thought I'd best say my extra bit too! Basically the same as thinking as Craig, no offence meant and probably a bit harsh. But I'm
one of these people that wants a guide to have quantative things in it, such as roughly so many amps for such a thickness of steel kind of thing, and
the other things you mention about setting upa welder. It's probably just me being overly picky in all fairness! I also tend to look at things
in a scientific way and I always want to have a very full explanation of things before i start so I know asmuch about whats going on as possible.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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clementine
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| posted on 25/8/06 at 03:30 PM |
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Good point. The problem with DIY welders is they don't tend to tell you the amps corresponding to each power setting in the manual.
Having said that, I've been playing with a few hobby welders, and a good setting for 1.5mm steel is the second lowest power setting on every one
of them.
Wire feed speed - no chance! The hobby welders are hobby welders due to their horrible wire feed control - they seem to vary a lot between welders
of the same model! But quite right - I'll suggest a starting point together with the symptoms of too fast and too slow.
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907
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| posted on 25/8/06 at 03:59 PM |
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The stepped settings on the front of the welder are the Voltage settings.
The amps are the wire speed.
For a given voltage there will be a perfect wire speed that will run and sound just right.
Many people quote the phrase, "frying bacon".
When transferring a setting from one welder to a different make of welder you would read off or measure the volts,
and give the wire speed in metres/min.
To measure wire speed you just pull the trigger for say 10 seconds and measure the length of the wire that comes out of the tip.
Multiply by 6 and you have wire per minute.
So a setting might be... 18v 1.5m/m
Number 4, and 6 and a bit, doesn't mean a thing.
hth
Paul G
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BKLOCO
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| posted on 26/8/06 at 08:33 AM |
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AFAIK there are 2 people on here that you should ask for welding info.
Both of these are "real" welders
They are TREV D and PAUL (907)
If you want sensible, reliable answers to welding questions ask one of those 2.
You'll get facts not opinions.
However don't argue with them please...You know how tempramental these (artistes) can be
What these 2 don't know about welding aint worth knowing.
[Edited on 26-8-06 by BKLOCO]
Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want!!! 
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907
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| posted on 26/8/06 at 01:00 PM |
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That's amusing Brian, complete bollokcs, but amusing all the same.
There are many skilled and knowledgeable welders on this site.
Welding is a strange subject. There are often several ways to achieve the same results.
No one way is right, or wrong, just different.
Likewise, no one person knows it all, least of all me, but between us, that's all of us on
this wonderful website, we could make anything.
As for me, I'm still learning, and hope I always will be. I just marvel at you lot that can mould fibreglass,
do stunning things with paint, or understand the electronic wizardry of engine management.
Long may this site continue.
Paul G
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clementine
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 05:21 PM |
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I had a try at measuring voltage (open circuit!). Quite surprised how little difference there is between lowest setting where the welder should be
kicking out 30 amps, and the highest where there should be 150. Approx 22V vs 35V.
I wonder whether open circuit voltage might be affected by the internals of the welder, and if different welders might give different readings.
Didn't really want to try a measurement while welding.
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craig1410
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| posted on 27/8/06 at 06:42 PM |
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Hi,
I think it is the open circuit voltage which is usually measured. As you said, it is probably very difficult to measure the voltage while welding...
There will be a whole bunch of variables involved which will alter the "effective" voltage too such as the internal resistance of the
welder output circuits and the cleanliness of the contact between welder and wire at the tip. I think the distance between tip and weld pool also
affects voltage but I'm not certain. I'm sure someone will correct me here if this isn't correct.
In general I would expect cheaper single phase welders to be less precise at controlling voltage (and wire feed) and they will also be more likely to
suffer poor grounding due to low quality earth clamps. When you also consider that the torch will be of poorer quality and the gas used is commonly
CO2 from a small hobby size bottle or pub gas, it is surprising that these hobby type welders are useable at all!
After struggling away with a half decent (Clarke 120A) hobby welder for a few years I was surprised how much easier it was to weld when I tried a
professional setup with an auto-darkening mask and decent gas. It was so easy it was funny!
This is one of the reasons I think that beginners should get professional tuition so that they can focus on learning to weld on equipment which works
reliably and repeatably. There is nothing worse than toiling away with a welder not sure if it is you or the machine which is letting the side down.
Part of this tuition should also include advice on buying (or perhaps hiring for a specific job) your first welder.
Cheers,
Craig.
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Lawnmower
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| posted on 30/8/06 at 10:03 PM |
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I got home tonight to find the exhaust has broke on my wifes mx5, where the pipe enters the silencer. Will be fixing it this weekend, by Plan A - MIG
Welding!
I have never welded before, so am kinda jumping in the deep end.
Well, I have had a look at the site and found it very useful. Was just wondering what tools I will need, as I couldn't seem to find a
particlalry long list. (I suspect some more seaching by myself tommorrow t work will prove more fruitfull, as i'm about to fall asleep).
(plan B is rivets/brackets and Gun Gum!)
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DIY Si
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 06:23 PM |
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The only tools I use when welding are a wire brush For cleaning the job), a pen knife (for cleaning splatter ou tof the nozzle) and a wire cutter (for
removing excess wire from the gun). That's it really. Oh, apart from gloves and a helmet/visor.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 07:35 PM |
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Hi,
A set of mole grip type welding clamps comes in very handy although not essential for the job you are undertaking on this occasion. I would also
recommend "Anti-Spatter Spray" which you can buy from Halfords. Spray this inside the nozzle of the welding torch and give it a shake and
it will help to prevent spatter building up. You can also spray it around the weld site to prevent spatter sticking to neighbouring panels but again
not essential for this job.
Other thing to have handy is a spare welding tip or two and ideally a spare gas cup. Make sure the welding tip is the right size for the wire and
change them when they start to get worn.
As already said a steel wire brush is invaluable as is some course aluminium oxide sandpaper or a linishing disk or wire brush for your angle grinder
to clean the site prior to welding.
HTH,
Craig.
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JoelP
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 08:05 PM |
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when welding a car i believe you are meant to disconnect both terminals of the battery. Could be bollox though. I use a small wire brush in an angle
air grinder to clean stuff, nice and fast.
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lexi
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 09:59 PM |
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Unplug battery and alternator before welding on car
Alex
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craig1410
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| posted on 31/8/06 at 11:13 PM |
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Also, make sure if you are welding an exhaust that you clamp your earth onto the exhaust and not the car body or you might find that sparks come from
places you didn't expect...
Oh, and my favourite - make sure you don't have any petrol or brake fluid leaks before you start welding... 
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Lawnmower
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 12:51 PM |
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Many thanks,
Spent ~£70 yesterday on loads of paraphanelia - gkloves, apron, wire, clamps, chipping hammer, wire wool, wire wheel, heat proof paint, and Haynes
welding book!
(already have a cebora 155? mig welder, auto dark helmet and some argo shield).
Will get some weld splatter stuff tonight.
FYI, my mate has helped me with welding on my landy before, so kinda watched him.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 02:16 PM |
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You should only need a chipping hammer when using arc. MIG shouldn't leave any slag behind.
“Let your plans be dark and as impenetratable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”
Sun Tzu, The Art of War
My new blog: http://spritecave.blogspot.co.uk/
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NS Dev
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| posted on 1/9/06 at 02:41 PM |
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Another person who knows a little bit about welding speaking!!
(deffo NOT an expert but equally when you understand the principles of what you are trying to achieve then the rest is just practice!)
Two points I will make:
1) to weld 1.6mm steel with most "hobby" welders of up to 150 amps, you will actually be in the top two or three settings in terms of
power. The literature with these machines makes all sorts of outrageous claims, but in reality my old 150 amp Clarke was on its limit welding 2.5mm
tube to 2.5mm tube in a rollcage, to the point where the tips overheat and start to stall the wirefeed.
2) the best advice I will give to a beginner is ALWAYS practice and set up on a piece of scrap before EVERY weld that you do. After many years of
welding I still always set up the machine on scrap before any new setup is used properly, and often just between groups of welds.
Start the arc with a guessed power setting, higher than you think you will need usually, and too much wire, hold the torch in one hand and dial the
wire feed back until you get the frying bacon sound, using the other hand.
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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