karlak
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 11:17 AM |
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Sorry, but I really think that this "hole" going all the way through the Bellhousing is a red herring. When mated up to the Type9 I could
not see how this would in anyway interfere with any part of the gearbox. As mentioned the only part of the gearbox that moves is the "small
shaft" that moves freely into the pre-drilled(machined) hole on the back of the bellhousing.
I cant even see why the "hole" that goes through the BH would need to be blocked (with a bolt etc), because from what I coudl tell, even
with the gasket in place there was not a tight dirt seal around the back on the BH and the bearbox.
It could be I have a different type of gearbox although it is a type9.
I do know that these bellhousings have multiple applications and remember being told that they can be used in a Morgan, which is perhaps why it has
certain other fixings and moulding options.
annoyingly I would have taken pictures to show all this at the time, but had just hurt my back so could hardly move - Two weeks of Diazapam
(Spelling) and rest has just about sorted me out 
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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se7ensport
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 09:13 PM |
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Hey karlak, its not the 10mm hole thats the problem, it is the 3inch wide and 1inch deep recess on the lower half of the bellhousing that does not
exist on the standard type 9 bellhousing which will allow the layshaft to drift out.
[Edited on 27/8/11 by se7ensport]
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karlak
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 09:39 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by se7ensport
Hey karlak, its not the 10mm hole thats the problem, it is the 3inch wide and 1inch deep recess on the lower half of the bellhousing that does not
exist on the standard type 9 bellhousing which will allow the layshaft to drift out.
[Edited on 27/8/11 by se7ensport]
Ohhh, Im confooosed
So are we saying that this small layshaft should not be allowed to drift out then(as per a pinto bellhousing). But the fact that the these Duratec
Bellhousings have the recess, means that it will ?
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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MikeRJ
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 09:44 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by karlak
Sorry, but I really think that this "hole" going all the way through the bellhousing is a red herring. When mated up to the Type9 I could
not see how this would in anyway interfere with any part of the gearbox. As mentioned the only part of the gearbox that moves is the "small
shaft" that moves freely into the pre-drilled(machined) hole on the back of the bellhousing.
You are correct in that this is the only shaft that should be moving. The problem which this thread refers to is the shaft which is near the
bottom the face that bolts onto the bellhousing. This is the layshaft, and absolutely should not be allowed to move out at all. It is prevented from
doing so by the standard Ford bellhousing, but the Duratec bellhousings are designed for the heavy duty type 9 that have a large bearing housing in
this position, so the bellhousing has a recess to clear this. When used with a standard type 9, this recess allows the layshaft to move out with
potentially disastrous consequences.
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karlak
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 09:53 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by karlak
Sorry, but I really think that this "hole" going all the way through the bellhousing is a red herring. When mated up to the Type9 I could
not see how this would in anyway interfere with any part of the gearbox. As mentioned the only part of the gearbox that moves is the "small
shaft" that moves freely into the pre-drilled(machined) hole on the back of the bellhousing.
You are correct in that this is the only shaft that should be moving. The problem which this thread refers to is the shaft which is near the
bottom the face that bolts onto the bellhousing. This is the layshaft, and absolutely should not be allowed to move out at all. It is prevented from
doing so by the standard Ford bellhousing, but the Duratec bellhousings are designed for the heavy duty type 9 that have a large bearing housing in
this position, so the bellhousing has a recess to clear this. When used with a standard type 9, this recess allows the layshaft to move out with
potentially disastrous consequences.
Ahh, think I have got it now ( I was in extreme agony with backpain on day 1 and Diazapam the 2nd day when I looked at mine). I didnt notice on mine
the lower shaft.
When I get back to the workshop next week I will whip the bellhousing off to take a bettter look - I only noticed the "should be moving
shaft". I will also ask the question from who I brought the Bellhousing from, cos if it is an issue then a bolt needs to be supplied to limit
the movement lower shaft.
Cheers 
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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daviep
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| posted on 27/8/11 at 09:55 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
quote:
Originally posted by karlak
Sorry, but I really think that this "hole" going all the way through the bellhousing is a red herring. When mated up to the Type9 I could
not see how this would in anyway interfere with any part of the gearbox. As mentioned the only part of the gearbox that moves is the "small
shaft" that moves freely into the pre-drilled(machined) hole on the back of the bellhousing.
You are correct in that this is the only shaft that should be moving. The problem which this thread refers to is the shaft which is near the
bottom the face that bolts onto the bellhousing. This is the layshaft, and absolutely should not be allowed to move out at all. It is prevented from
doing so by the standard Ford bellhousing, but the Duratec bellhousings are designed for the heavy duty type 9 that have a large bearing housing in
this position, so the bellhousing has a recess to clear this. When used with a standard type 9, this recess allows the layshaft to move out with
potentially disastrous consequences.
Bingo
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 28/8/11 at 02:00 PM |
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Engine taken out this morning engine gearbox and Bell all split up.
Just waiting for my big drill to recharge and I will and tap a 10mm thread and fit a 10mm bolt to retain the lay-shaft.
Get it all back together this afternoon and back in tomorrow .
Despite the PITA, I would like to thank the forum raising this issue, as I see it, this as a massive safety issue that perhaps needs posting in a more
permanent position somewhere as I had never heard of this issue and If I had have missed this post would never had done anything about it.
Can't imagine the damage that could be done at 70mph if the lay-shaft drops out.
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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karlak
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| posted on 28/8/11 at 02:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Engine taken out this morning engine gearbox and Bell all split up.
Just waiting for my big drill to recharge and I will and tap a 10mm thread and fit a 10mm bolt to retain the lay-shaft.
Get it all back together this afternoon and back in tomorrow .
Despite the PITA, I would like to thank the forum raising this issue, as I see it, this as a massive safety issue that perhaps needs posting in a more
permanent position somewhere as I had never heard of this issue and If I had have missed this post would never had done anything about it.
Can't imagine the damage that could be done at 70mph if the lay-shaft drops out.
Yep, good points.
More to the point I think a Company selling these Bellhousings needs to make the buyer very aware and perhaps further more, supply a suitable Bolt to
retain the lay-shaft. Luckily, my engine and bellhousing are still sitting on the workshop floor, would be a bit miffed if it all had to be removed
again from a fully working/wired/plumb'd car 
Again, thanks to the thread for pointing this out
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 28/8/11 at 05:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by big-vee-twin
Engine taken out this morning engine gearbox and Bell all split up.
Just waiting for my big drill to recharge and I will and tap a 10mm thread and fit a 10mm bolt to retain the lay-shaft.
Get it all back together this afternoon and back in tomorrow .
Despite the PITA, I would like to thank the forum raising this issue, as I see it, this as a massive safety issue that perhaps needs posting in a more
permanent position somewhere as I had never heard of this issue and If I had have missed this post would never had done anything about it.
Can't imagine the damage that could be done at 70mph if the lay-shaft drops out.
So as mine has a bolt in that bottom hole, has this been put in for this reason, will that retain it? I assume you drilled and tapped the existing
hole as in my earlier pics?
Mark
Tiger Avon
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big-vee-twin
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| posted on 28/8/11 at 06:00 PM |
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My Bell housing didn't have a hole in it, so I marked out and drilled and tapped a 10mm thread and inserted a10mm bolt fitted with spacers made
up from a nut and washer so it sat level with the machined face as below.
I then put a blob of grease on the end and married the bell and box together to make sure it was touching the lay-shaft end, which it did.
I wouls say if you have a bolt in the same place as the one I have just fitted today then your probably ok.
[img]
 
Layshaft retaining bolt
[/img]
Duratec Engine is fitted, MS2 Extra V3 is assembled and tested, engine running, car now built. IVA passed 26/02/2016
http://www.triangleltd.com
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 28/8/11 at 08:33 PM |
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Thanks for the reply and it looks like I am a lucky one!
Mark
Tiger Avon
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pjay
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| posted on 30/8/11 at 01:37 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by redeye
Mark
If you look at the Tiger forum pete (pjay) the Tiger forum Who I believe you a familiar with has the same bellhousing as you.
he also shows some pics of his bellhousing which apears to have a bolt in the hole you're talking about
Im not sure if you purchased them from the same place but It may be worth asking him if the bolt was there when he bought it.
http://viatron.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=1037152
http://viatron.websitetoolbox.com/file?id=1038998
Apologies just got back from holiday so catching up. Thanks Mark for kindly pointed this thread out to me.
Patrick - as you say the bellhousing came from RWD and arrived as shown in the photos you've referenced. I had not picked up on the bolt as
being there for this purpose however. It's interesting that the photos on RWDs website don't show this cap head bolt fitted ( see
'more images' ):
http://www.rwdmotorsport.com/Bellhousings/Duratec-Engine-to-Ford-Gearbox-Cable-Clutch-Bellhousing/prod_19.html
Colin - many thanks for pointing this out!
Cheers
Pete
[Edited on 30/8/11 by pjay]
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 30/8/11 at 03:59 PM |
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Pete,
But if you read the blurb on the page you quote it does say "Supplied with a recess machined in the gearbox end of the bellhousing to
accommodate the layshaft boss found on some heavy duty Type 9 gearboxes. Fitted with layshaft retaining cap screw in cases where this recess is not
needed"
So it would appear we are OK!!
[Edited on 30/8/11 by Tiger Super Six]
Mark
Tiger Avon
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pjay
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| posted on 30/8/11 at 08:16 PM |
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Hi Mark - this is all ringing a bell again (have to bear with me its been a year since I was doing this part of the conversion!). I can now remember a
discussion with Ian at RWD and he explained this issue but said the bolt would come with the bellhousing! RWD to be commended.
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FASTdan
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| posted on 31/8/11 at 09:45 AM |
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Ummmm, just read through this and became increasingly concerned toward the end, but it would appear RWD Motorsport have addressed the issue so we
should be ok? Bit paranoid now, dont think I even took any pictures of our bellhousing prior to fitting......
Duratec's been in about 18 months now, 3 trackdays and probably 5000 miles road use. I'd say the BH is 2 years old - might give them a
ring and see when they started installing the bolt? Dont really fancy pulling it all out.
This thread highlights that there's a fair few Duratec conversions done or WIP, good to see.
NEW danST WEBSITE NOW LIVE! Bike carbs, throttle bodies and more......
http://www.danstengineering.co.uk/
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Tiger Super Six
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| posted on 31/8/11 at 11:26 AM |
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If you put your hand inside the bellhousing (I assume you have the cable clutch) you can feel if the bolt is in there as part of it will be coming
through to the inside. I had a picture of mine, but still thought I would check
Mark
Tiger Avon
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se7ensport
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| posted on 31/8/11 at 05:18 PM |
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I spoke to RWD today; they were very apologetic about the mistake and have put a new bolt and spacing in the post, apparently all bellhousings are
supposed to have the spacer included.
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