MikeRJ
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 02:45 PM |
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I certrainly don't like to take the pee from anybody who has the enthusiasm to get stuck in, and there has obviously been many hours of work put
into this. His skills however, clearly don't match his his enthusiasm.
I'm not a professional welder, and I've made a few welds that I'm not overly proud of in the past, but the state of the welds on
that chassis is frightening.
Liam, the "book" front lower wishbone is of extremely marginal design, as numerous threads on here have concluded in the past. Simply
adding a plate for the shock mounting to Dr Hess's front lower wishbones will not solve an absolutely fundamental design flaw he has added by
introducing a bend into the rear tube. This tube is heavily loaded in compression (probably more so than any other tube in the entire locost), and a
bend here will cause it to fail pretty much the first time the brakes are used in anger.
Constructions like this are simply not good for the Locost community.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 04:32 PM |
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My welding is not good well to be truly honest awful -- but when I see this :-) At lest If I make kludge I know to grind it out and start again.
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JoelP
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 05:30 PM |
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Liam is obviously not taking the piss, he rightly points out that we should stick to constructive criticism. A fair point considering the effort
involved in a project of this magnitude.
I believe that Dr Hess's problem will hopefully solve itself if he has any sense - a violent shakedown on an airfield will soon prove any major
weaknesses, without any major chance of injury to himself or others.
Obviously it is well worth pointing out obvious errors, or even suspected errors, at the risk of offending, in the interests of making people think
twice.
[Edited on 16/1/05 by JoelP]
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Liam
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 06:03 PM |
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Yay! Glad somebody understood my post! I must confess though that I hadn't clocked the bend in the rear wishbone tube whilst looking at the
shock mounts. Dunno why the hell he did that to be honest.
But it's not gonna snap and cause his car to explode in a ball of flames, killing everyone nearby (as some people seem to think) - it might bend
a little and he'll stop and think "ooh er". That's about it. Look at hellfire's crash pics and previous posts on the
subject of bending wishbones to appreciate what it would take for even mere 16 guage ERW to fail catastrophically (i.e. snap), let alone 3mm wall
cds.
Liam
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kb58
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 06:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
...Obviously it is well worth pointing out obvious errors, or even suspected errors, at the risk of offending, in the interests of making people think
twice.
Yes that's why I spoke up. I, and everyone else here are doing our best on our own projects, and I respect that there are many ways to arrive
at the same goal. But in this one case I could not stay silent and feel good about myself. I decided to lay off commenting on the welding, as that
would be too much. But that lower front suspension is bad news.
BTW, I asked Dr. Hess privately if he'd allow me to use that picture in a book. The response lead me to believe he isn't one to take
advice from others. Great, an ego... He fails to understand, even if he doesn't like the comments, physics doesn't care about egos. It
will break.
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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kb58
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| posted on 16/1/05 at 06:42 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Liam
...But it's not gonna snap and cause his car to explode in a ball of flames, killing everyone nearby (as some people seem to think)...Liam
Something needed to be said. Oh sure, maybe it'll coast to a safe stop, remaining completely under control and in a straight line, but I
doubt it.
Then again, maybe he'll be out on a road, takes a curve, the tube buckles, the car quickly steers on its own across the lane into
on-coming traffic. Care to be in any car nearby?
Or it steers on its own off an hillside, or spins into the centerlane divider backwards, crushing the gas tank, or...
It's going to suddenly change direction, catching the driver unaware. What happens after that is very unlikely to be what the driver
intended.
We all seem to agree it's a failure waiting to happen, but to "look at the good side" of the ensuing mayhem isn't the
solution. It needs to be fixed; something needed to be said.
[Edited on 1/16/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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Rorty
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| posted on 17/1/05 at 01:26 AM |
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The argument "it's not finished" is moot. There's nothing can be done with that car to make it roadworthy.
I too was a scrutineer and if I had been presented with that degree of workmanship and disregard for basic design principles, the owner would have
been told to put the car back on the trailer.
Hopefully he's not too proud to ignore the groundswell of shock and disaproval, even though it probably owes him a few dollars.
Cheers, Rorty.
"Faster than a speeding Pullet".
PLEASE DON'T U2U ME IF YOU WANT A QUICK RESPONSE. TRY EMAILING ME INSTEAD!
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owelly
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 10:50 PM |
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Whats the problem? It looks fine to me!!
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/3/05 at 10:59 PM |
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did you read the thread or jump straight to the end?! 
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kreb
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 12:06 AM |
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It's funny to bump into this thread here. I mentioned to Dr. Hess six months ago on GRM that his welds looked scarry. His answer was the pat
"they don't have to be pretty to work"
It's amazing the human ability to rationalize. Every welding text out there says "this is how the weld should look" On top of that,
even a pretty weld can lack penetration and be weak. So if the visible is poor, why should we assume that the invisible will be good?
Howard Gardener postulates that there are a variety of distinct intellegences. It stands to reason that we will inevitably better at some than others.
Beware the fellow who thinks that he's strong in all areas, for he is deluded and therefore dangerous.
https://www.supercars.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1966_FiatAbarth_1000SP1.jpg
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kb58
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 01:14 AM |
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A buddy who designs and builds tube-frame cars said, "Doesn't Hess realize his welds don't *look* like good welds? Has he ever seen
welds like that on any car driven on the road?"
In respond to his "they don't have to be pretty to work," I'm not sure that phrase applies here. A good looking weld
isn't guaranteed to be good. A bad-looking weld is much more likely to be bad. Which would he prefer?
At least we tried; what more can we do?
[Edited on 3/5/05 by kb58]
Mid-engine Locost - http://www.midlana.com
And the book - http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/midlana/paperback/product-21330662.html
Kimini - a tube-frame, carbon shell, Honda Prelude VTEC mid-engine Mini: http://www.kimini.com
And its book -
http://www.lulu.com/shop/kurt-bilinski/kimini-how-to-design-and-build-a-mid-engine-sports-car-from-scratch/paperback/product-4858803.html
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cassidym
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 10:25 AM |
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Am really in no position to offer any critique.
BUT I must say seeing his welds actually gave me a good confidence booster. I'm positive that I can do better welding than that + I've got
good enough sense to grind out and reweld bad looking welds.
So if he can do it, I most certainly can.
Just for interest, are those really MIG welds? It looks like some of my stick welds 18 months ago when I started out.
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dr-fastlane
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| posted on 5/3/05 at 11:05 AM |
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This remains me to my early years when i build a go-kart. The welds where very crapy. At some point i wish someone told me that and that it was too
dangerous. Fortunately nothing happened.
Besides the welding the most scary think this men does is not learning from other peoples errors. In my eyes it is the worst thing you can do.
After all, mechanical problems can be repaired.
------------------------------
I have not failed once. I have successfully found ways that will not work!
https://www.motor-forum.nl/threads/hardtail-dragstyle-project.343482/
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want2race
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| posted on 11/7/06 at 03:43 AM |
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I'm not touching this subject with a pole.
Obviously the guy has been informed about the general consensus. He isnt changing his mine. No need to try drum up support.
Remember.. a smart man learns from every situation!
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Confused but excited.
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| posted on 11/7/06 at 11:23 AM |
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With an atitude like Dr Hess has, I'm just glad they don't practice medcine over here.  :
Tell them about the bent treacle edges!
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