flak monkey
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 06:51 PM |
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Welding to GSXR throttle bodies?
Does anyone know if its possible to weld to GSXR throttle bodies? I know they are aluminium, but I have no idea if they are weldable or not.
I would like to make 4 flanges to fit on the inlet side and get them welded on. The flanges would be drilled and tapped so I can bolt on a back plate
for the plenum.
I dont want to go to the trouble of making 4 flanges if they arent weldable.
Alternatively can anyone come up with a good idea to fit the plenum? The OD of the outer edge of the throttle bodies is 55mm.
Thanks,
David
[Edited on 31/12/09 by flak monkey]
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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NS Dev
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 06:52 PM |
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should be, don't know for sure but all throttle bodies I have seen so far have been weldable
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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Steve Hignett
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 06:54 PM |
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I hate it when people offer an opinion or guess as a response to a technical question - but I'm about too!!!
Are they not a cast part?
Obviously you can still weld to a cast part, but we wouldn't normally do it to an upright for eg, as it's a safety part, but the same must
be true, it will either be a good/solid/safe weld or it won't be...
IMO Obviously!!!
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clairetoo
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 06:55 PM |
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I wouldnt even think about welding the flanges on - you will allmost certainly destroy the `bodies 
Why not glue them ? There are plenty of high strength engineering adhesives out there........
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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big_wasa
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 07:02 PM |
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when I asked the question didnt you say no ? 
[Edited on 31/12/09 by big_wasa]
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Peteff
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 07:08 PM |
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Could you make the flanges with interference fit holes and use adhesive as Claire says, some hermetite bearing seal should hold it. If you had a spare
throttle body you could try tig with some 4340 rod.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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flak monkey
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 07:28 PM |
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I would be worried about welding to them if it was the throttle plate end due to distortion, but this would be on the outer side.
I could glue the flanges on, the joint needs to be air tight. Which it would be if glued properly I guess. It also needs to withstand 1 bar of boost.
I guess 648 would be able to withstand this - fuel resistant, heat resistant to 150deg as well.
The simple way to do it would be to use silicone pipe to connect them to stub tubes on the plenum. But I would prefer a proper mechanical joint if I
could.
I could always put the TBs in the lathe and skim that end down to a specific size to make press fit flanges an easier prospect I guess.
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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clairetoo
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 07:35 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by flak monkey
I could always put the TBs in the lathe and skim that end down to a specific size to make press fit flanges an easier prospect I guess.
I'd do that - but not a press fit , there would be no room for the glue !
I have done this on some crossflow bodies - skimmed them smooth , used some lock'n'seal with a close sliding fit , and they were rock
solid .
Its cuz I is blond , innit
Claire xx
Will weld for food......
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flak monkey
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 07:57 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
I'd do that - but not a press fit , there would be no room for the glue !
I have done this on some crossflow bodies - skimmed them smooth , used some lock'n'seal with a close sliding fit , and they were rock
solid .
Awsome thanks Claire. Had a look at the TDS for 648 and the ideal gap looks like its 0.05mm.
Will work with this and see what happens.
Just hope it all seals properly! 
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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plantman
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 08:59 PM |
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talk to Lars at A&H fabrications
loook at my intercooler plus take off the turbo which was cast ally
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RAYLEE29
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 10:15 PM |
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Hi you could Lightly press with loctite and then french key x2 opposite each other for added security Ray 
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flak monkey
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| posted on 31/12/09 at 10:27 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RAYLEE29
Hi you could Lightly press with loctite and then french key x2 opposite each other for added security Ray
Could you elaborate? Not familiar with 'french key'
Thanks,
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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NS Dev
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| posted on 1/1/10 at 11:33 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve Hignett
I hate it when people offer an opinion or guess as a response to a technical question - but I'm about too!!!
Are they not a cast part?
Obviously you can still weld to a cast part, but we wouldn't normally do it to an upright for eg, as it's a safety part, but the same must
be true, it will either be a good/solid/safe weld or it won't be...
IMO Obviously!!!
Fine you don't have to take any notice of my opinion!!
Its only based on welding cast alloy throttle bodies after all..................
They don't have to be welded all the way round, and they won't distort at that end as they've got a ruddy great collar on the neck
iirc
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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NS Dev
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| posted on 1/1/10 at 11:44 AM |
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sorry, toys back in pram................
I have never welded gsxr bodies in particular, but I have welded various other cast ones, which have been fine.
It all depends on the particular alloy obviously, but I doubt they will be much different to any other alloy used in a similar application.
In terms of strength of the finished bit, well, we've welded a cast alloy bellhousing to an alloy adaptor and that is happily taking 500hp
without cracking...................
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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flak monkey
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| posted on 1/1/10 at 11:52 AM |
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Thanks Nat.
I think I will try sticking them on with 648 first, the sums suggest that there is an area of 5 sq inches on the 4 throttle bodies inlet side. And in
shear the breaking stress will be ~18,000lbs.
So I should be able to hang the car off them, 18 times over....
648 is the stuff they stick gears onto shafts with, so it should be up to the job, I hope
http://www.loctite.sg/sea/content_data/93769_Loctite_648_Retaining_Compound.pdf
David
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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dlatch
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| posted on 1/1/10 at 02:22 PM |
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why not compromise and glue then a few tack welds as well
everyone is happy then
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RAYLEE29
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| posted on 1/1/10 at 04:05 PM |
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Hi, a french key is where you drill and tap at the joint between the two items then screw in a grub screw to help secure them from moving, mainly used
on a shaft and gear arrangement, prob a bit old hat these days.
id have thought the loctite retainer will be fine in your application.
we used to use 649 on pess tools, the only way to get the inserts out was to heat in a flame or oven till it came loose, far hotter than youl ever get
in your application. I would assume 648 is of a similar (prob newer) strenth as 649
you can leave a couple of thou clearance and float them in or use a transition fit, but bear in mind once in with loctite they wont come out again
without lots of persuasion so its got to be right first time.
hope this helps and hasnt bored you to death
Ray
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flak monkey
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| posted on 1/1/10 at 04:29 PM |
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Brilliant, thanks Ray
Sera
http://www.motosera.com
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scutter
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| posted on 9/1/10 at 01:17 PM |
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The aircraft welders at work, welded the holes up in my GSXR throttle bodies so it can be done.
Just a word of advice, take all the plastic bushes off them, can you guess how i know I/they melted them into the return springs! making them very
solid.
ATB Dan.
[Edited on 9/1/10 by scutter]
The less I worked, the more i liked it.
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fatbaldbloke
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| posted on 11/1/10 at 11:39 PM |
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As Dan says, you can weld them. I had a little repair done to one of mine at work. However, to fix the adaptor flange onto the airbox backplate I
made them a firm-ish fit and used Permatex Copper to seal the join. However I also have a couple of braces linking the backplate to the manifold as
security. 7000 miles now with no problems. There are some photos on my website.
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Angel Acevedo
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| posted on 12/1/10 at 04:13 PM |
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Freeze Press Fit
Machine with interference fit, freeze plugs, warm carbs a little bit, install...
???
Just a guess....
Beware of what you wish.. for it may come true....
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