Wadders
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 11:16 AM |
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Towing Dolly questions
Anyone know anything about towing dollies, i dont have room for a full size trailer and have been thinking about making a towing dolly ( one with
wheels rather than the fold up type)
It will only be for the locost, and get used occasionally for track days. From what i can gather there are two types, one has a fixed pair of
platforms for the front wheels, and one has a swivelling platform. I'm guessing the second one is best, but am wondering if its worth the extra
effort, considering my intended usage. Any advice/input/thoughts greatly appreiciated.
Al.
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 11:32 AM |
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This has been asked before...
I think the conclusion was:-
a) a vehicle with any wheels on the road must be road legal, i.e. taxed, MOT, insurance, whatever.
b) a dolly is only intended for short journeys, e.g. to get a car off a motorway to a place of safety. Long-distance towing would be frowned upon.
Mind you, others have said that they use a dolly to take their Locost everywhere, so be prepared for alternative views!
David
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nick baker
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 11:38 AM |
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Look at my Avatar on the left.
I used to use and A-Frame to haul that buggy to and from motoX courses.
I have somewhere a recorded answerphone message from a Road Traffic Police bod who was ringing to respond to a question regarding it's
legality.
I'll try to find the transcript: but Basically, he said that so long as it was incapable of being Driven (not a powered trailer) then it was ok
in the eyes of the law.
Thus: removing the high tension lead was enough to comply.
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DarrenW
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 12:05 PM |
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Nick, If your location is in Sweden does that advice hold true for UK?
i was always under the impression that if the rear axle is still in contact with the road then the vehicle had to be MOT'd, taxed and insured.
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locoboy
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 12:10 PM |
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I believe it is the case that it needs to be taxed and tested to come into contact with the Queens highway.
Although a track prepared locost is more road worthy than some of the trailers i have seen on the road pmsl.
[Edited on 15/2/05 by colmaccoll]
ATB
Locoboy
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Wadders
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 12:35 PM |
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Just to clarify, the car will be fully road legal, am i right in thinking that because the whole thing weighs less than 750kg, i wont need brakes on
the dolly. I'll be towing it behind a merc sprinter.
Al
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zetec
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 01:42 PM |
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Correct. The total weight for the dolly and car must be 750kg or less, over that the wheels of the towed trailer must have a self braking setup, as
the wheels of the car on the dolly are considered part of the trailer they would also need a self brake setup if in contact with the road...
" I only registered to look at the pictures, now I'm stuck with this username for the rest of my life!"
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David Jenkins
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 01:54 PM |
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You'll also find that your car has certified weight limits for braked and unbraked trailers - it's illegal to exceed them (though it will
have to be a pedantic copper to pull you over and take you to a weighbridge - unless the trailer suspension is collapsing!).
I doubt if this will be an issue with a Merc, though... 
David
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mangogrooveworkshop
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 04:01 PM |
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Scotlad tows the Indy with an A frame up to Knockhill. He towed it to the Newcastle SVA center as well. As stated it has to be under 750 kgs.
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Wadders
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 04:04 PM |
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Excellent, this all looks like good news.
Anyone have any thoughts on wether it needs to swivel or not? The only downside i can think of with the fixed type, is maybe it would scrub the rear
tyres of the locost a bit when tight turning.
Al.
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Bob C
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 04:42 PM |
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I suppose it depends on the vehicle, but my gearbox (borgwarner/tremec T5) actually makes complaining noises if you tow the car any distance withe the
driving wheels rotating and the engine stopped and the car in neutral. The noise starts within about 3 miles. Presumably this is because the mainshaft
is all spinning inside stationary gears so is not recieving any lubrication.
When I've been towed in this car I've occasionally pressed the clutch & selected a gear, just to get some oil around.
The T5 may be unusual in this respect (it uses a low viscosity auto trans fluid lubricant), but I'd still worry about long distances on a dolly
with the driving wheels on the road.
Cheers
Bob
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ned
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 04:46 PM |
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I believe hicost used/has a towing dolly, might be worth a u2u..
Ned.
beware, I've got yellow skin
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nick baker
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 04:52 PM |
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"Nick, If your location is in Sweden does that advice hold true for UK?"
I used to live in the UK... and the advice was from that time. I doubt that it'd be legal here in Sweden.
In Sweden, each and every trailer has to be registered Taxed, MOT'd and insured. (IF you want to legally go faster than 30Kmh)
Please Remeber... Sweden Spawned the volvo, and the "moose test"
I'm NOT relishing the thought of trying to SVA a bike-engined mini-silhouette here... It might be impossible... but I'm gonna build the
baby anyway. (back in the UK in 4 years I recon)
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 10:13 PM |
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im pretty sure that when this was discussed yonks back, someone pointed to a document that a towing dolly is only allowed for short distance recovery
and NOT for long distance transport.......
isnt there another rule that an unbraked trailer cant be more than 500kg or more than 50% of the car weight?
atb
steve
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britishtrident
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 10:32 PM |
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Definitely not legal except for recovery.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 15/2/05 at 10:35 PM |
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Thats right, just done the recovery operators licence at work.
It is illigal to transport a vehicle by any means other than on a purpose built transport vehicle or suitable trailer.
You can remove a disabled vehicle to a point of safety by towing (which includes ropes, rigid bars, dollies etc) Certain HGV's are exempt from
the rigid bar, something to do with brake couplings.
A blind eye is generally turned unless you are being silly
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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nick baker
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| posted on 16/2/05 at 04:20 PM |
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I'm a great fan of blind eyes.... But I'll still find that transcript. It was rather interesting. The fact that my buggy was never road
legal MIGHT play a factor in it.
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NS Dev
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| posted on 16/2/05 at 11:16 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
Thats right, just done the recovery operators licence at work.
It is illigal to transport a vehicle by any means other than on a purpose built transport vehicle or suitable trailer.
You can remove a disabled vehicle to a point of safety by towing (which includes ropes, rigid bars, dollies etc) Certain HGV's are exempt from
the rigid bar, something to do with brake couplings.
A blind eye is generally turned unless you are being silly
An aside Mark, but you'll probably know the answer, why are most recovery vehicles MOT exempt!???
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phelpsa
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| posted on 16/2/05 at 11:33 PM |
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I thought that, also, with a 4 wheeled trailer the wheels could only be a certain percentage of the overall trailer length apart? There was a huge
thread on this on the WSCC boardroom.
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stephen_gusterson
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| posted on 16/2/05 at 11:48 PM |
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if you were in an accident when 'blind eye' towing, i bet the insurance company would be eagle eyed
atb
steve
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britishtrident
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| posted on 17/2/05 at 08:15 AM |
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Anything running on trade plates is not required to have an MOT but is required to meet road traffic acts. Thankfully gone are the days of 2 different
classes of tradeplate
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nick baker
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| posted on 17/2/05 at 01:27 PM |
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Quote from Motor-Bike Bobby.
AS Described in provious mails.
Point of note. The Vehicle/Buggy being towed was NOT designed to be road-Legal. Therefore this MIGHT apply to track-day cars.
Here you go...
Reference to A-framing
This is a message for Nick Baker from PC Watkins from the motorcyclists based in Shrewsbury. To answer his query your vehicle you are towing behind an
A frame is exempt from everything. It goes down to the definition of the vehicle itself. Now there are two definitions of a vehicle; one is a
mechanically propelled vehicle and the other one is a motor vehicle. Now a motor vehicle is anything which is constructed or adapted for use on a road
and yours isn't constructed or adapted for use on a road so therefore you're exempt from the regulations. Under Regulation 4 of the
Construction and Use Regs you're actually written down as an exemption in there from certain construction and use requirements which is Vehicle
Exempt from Excise Duty, and you are exempt from Excise Duty by virtue of the fact that your vehicle is neither constructed, adapted or used to carry
a driver or a passenger. That's for use in the context of a motor vehicle so therefore you don't need insurance, you don't need MOT
you don't need tax and you are exempt from the Construction Use Regs. As long as the use of that vehicle is kept for off road use so if
you're touching the vehicle on the road on that you are exempt.
Any problems come back to me I'll give you my number if you want to leave a personal message to me dial the Police Station Number and ask for
extension 5038 that is the voice mail extension and just listen to the prompts and put in my collar number which is 1775 and I can come back to you.
I hope that answers your query. Thanks, bye bye.
This was left on the answerphone 17/07/1999
Nick.
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Mark Allanson
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| posted on 18/2/05 at 05:32 PM |
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I know recovery vehicles don't need an MOT, but don't know why. If not Mot'd, they must only be used for recovery and not
transportation or anything else for that matter. Most operators do MOT, because they are target for the local old bill if they don't.
If you can keep you head, whilst all others around you are losing theirs, you are not fully aware of the situation
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britishtrident
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| posted on 18/2/05 at 10:05 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark Allanson
I know recovery vehicles don't need an MOT, but don't know why. If not Mot'd, they must only be used for recovery and not
transportation or anything else for that matter. Most operators do MOT, because they are target for the local old bill if they don't.
The reason is historic goes back to the days of real "Heartbeat" style garages the idea originally was the motor trader could use any
vehicle at his disposal to render road side assistance. The circa mid 1970s an additional requirement was introduced the that the recovery vehicle
had to carry equipment to "lift and tow". This requirement was later tightened up further because the liberal interpretation of this was
any vechicle with a tow rope and jack was equiped to "lift and tow" which was not the original intention. The MAA and SMTA fought hard
to retain the use of trade plates and the MOT exemption.
With regard to off road vehicles they cannot be towed or even pushed with wheels in contact with the highway --- for example even pushing an
unregistered trail bike on the highway or foot path leaves the person in charge of it liable to prosecution. Also it is very difficult to make the
case that any vehicle with a drivers seat is not a vehicle and was not designed to be driven.
[Edited on 18/2/05 by britishtrident]
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nick baker
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| posted on 18/2/05 at 11:15 PM |
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IT seems as though the law is open to interpretation....
A road-traffic-policeman cleared me to tow an A-framed off-road buggy on the highway, and stated his badgenumber incase anyone else disputed it. He
had looked it all up before leaving the message. I would like to think that he knew what he was talking about....
[Edited on 18/2/05 by nick baker]
Plus.... it's all in the wording of the law. By definition it is not a "motor vehicle" as it is not designed for ROAD use.
IT technically becomes a trailer.
[Edited on 18/2/05 by nick baker]
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