RazMan
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 posted on 21/4/06 at 05:01 PM |
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Gasless or not gasless - that is the question
I am getting ridiculous gas consumption on my Migmate 130 - probably 20 mins of actual welding per disposable bottle. As a result I tried some gasless
wire but the results were very porous with loads of spatter, taking more time cleaning up than welding.
Is the Migmate capable of gasless welding? If so what am I doing wrong?
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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big_wasa
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 05:05 PM |
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Gas and get a proper bottle. I think Boc now do it on a monthly basses, Should get a full car out of a full bottle ie £35-£40 + bottle hire (£40 per
year).
Get argon shield and you will see an improvement straight away.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 05:08 PM |
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You can get away with pub Co2 but argoshield is the way too go, you will think youv'e bought a new welder if you swap over too it.
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RazMan
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 05:08 PM |
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Yep, I've been using Argoshield disposables and my welding has improved a lot.
I just wanted to know why the gasless wire was so crappy  The welding I'm doing at the moment is only a seat subframe so it won't be on
show but I still want it to be strong.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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andyharding
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 05:32 PM |
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You need to reverse the polarity when using gasless wire.
Are you a Mac user or a retard?
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raccoonradar
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 06:32 PM |
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have you got your regulator set to full ? if you have one without number settings best way is switch mig off, turn the regulator on until you can hear
the gas coming out [with trigger pressed] then try a weld & turn it up until you get a good weld
cheers
steve
edit; thats to make your gas last longer of course
not gas less welding
[Edited on 21/4/06 by raccoonradar]
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Peteff
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 06:58 PM |
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best way is switch mig off(it won't use any then)
 Turn the wire speed to zero and with the welder switched on press the trigger with the nozzle next to your ear, then turn the reg till you can just
hear the gas. If you are welding inside this should be enough to shield it. As Andy says, you reverse the polarity for gasless. On my erfi welder
there's a socket to swap the earth lead over.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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DIY Si
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:03 PM |
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I think he wants to know why mig-ing with gas-less wire, ie no regulator, is coming out wrong. I presume he knows how to set a gas fed machine.
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Mansfield
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:12 PM |
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Totally agree with andyharding & DIY Si.
Earth clamp to +ve, torch to -ve for gasless welding.
You need a gasless welder to have this polarity option I think.
Funny thing is, my welder (Clarke 105EN), produces VERY spattery and quite porous welds when running flux cored wire. You can get a weld outside when
its windy, but (to a novice) that seems to be the only benefit.
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ecosse
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:28 PM |
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I've used the flux cored wire a fair bit, and can produce good welds, but the one thing i have found is that the quality of wire varies a lot,
some are just impossible to get a good weld with.
I've found SIP and Machine mart wire to be the best so far.
Cheers
Alex
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raccoonradar
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:31 PM |
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my welder lets gas out when switched off thank you
& i understand the question about gas less, my point was if you mig is set up correct a bottle sould last longer than 20 mins
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DIY Si
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:39 PM |
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Fair point. A little bottle lasts me for roughly 1 or 1.5 rolls of 0.7kg 0.6mm wire. No idea time wise though, since I spend lots of time farting
about.
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tks
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:53 PM |
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mhhh
quote:
my welder lets gas out when switched off
1) Very Funny and not cheap right???
2) Always close the bottle when letting the stuff
3) what do you swtich of? how can de relais actuate its strange..
regards,
Tks
The above comments are always meant to be from the above persons perspective.
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Mansfield
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:59 PM |
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Alternatively, but a Machine Mart small gas bottle regulator.
I had a stand up 30 min argument with the salesman, as it doesn't regulate any flow - its either on or off.
The pathetic flow it does offer at MAX is enough for a good weld in still conditions though.
My (admittedly quite crap welder 150EN) welded up to its duty cycle lots of times and the gas is still quite full (110l bottle).
Its barely a mild hiss though.
[Edited on 21/4/06 by Mansfield]
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raccoonradar
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 07:59 PM |
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guest how long my first bottle lasted ??? yep about 20mins, my bro inlaw works for a hire company he got a welder for me but with it been for
"industrial use" i didn't get any instructions with it, wasn't until i spoke to someone how welds he said a small bottle had
lasted him the length of welding the entire front end of a mk2 escort & still had some left.
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RazMan
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 09:45 PM |
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Wow, I nip out for a Chinese and all these replies come in ! 
To clarify a couple of points:
I wasn't aware that you had to reverse the polarity for gasless (my machine doesn't have this facility) so that explains why my welding
looks like something on the bottom of my parrot's cage
{note to self .... put ad in 'for sale' section "nearly new reel of gasless wire, produces fabulous welds etc etc}
I will try to regulate the flow a little more to conserve gas, but I can barely hear the hiss as it is - worth a try though. Incidentally, I nearly
managed to stab myself in the ear with the mig wire when trying to listen for the gas - it appears that my speed setting is not quite
'zero' enough Go on, tell me you haven't done it too ....... really? ..... just me then
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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RazMan
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 09:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by raccoonradari spoke to someone how welds he said a small bottle had lasted him the length of welding the entire
front end of a mk2 escort & still had some left.
I reckon the thing was so rusty he just didn't notice any deteriation when the gas ran out after his third weld
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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RazMan
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| posted on 21/4/06 at 09:52 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by DIY Si
A little bottle lasts me for roughly 1 or 1.5 rolls of 0.7kg 0.6mm wire. No idea time wise though, since I spend lots of time farting about.
I spend a LOT of time farting about doing test welds, tacks and re-welding duff welds but I would consider myself lucky if I was to get a few
metres of wire through before the bottle runs out.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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907
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| posted on 22/4/06 at 12:07 AM |
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These are useful for setting gas flow rates. Cheaper than bottles of gas.
Paul G
 
Rescued attachment gas flow 002f.jpg
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dave_w11
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| posted on 22/4/06 at 01:13 AM |
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I'm on my last of 3 bottles I bought when I got my welder I've barely fully welded any of my chassis yet but have tack welded most and
done quite a bit of practice. I think I'll probably be buying another 3 though because I don't do enough other welding to justify a big
bottle.
I've poked myself in the ear trying to get the gas coming out right too. More than once I think doh!
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NS Dev
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| posted on 23/4/06 at 12:00 AM |
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Pub CO2, cheap and easy (not the best but does the job fine, built 2 rally cars, 1 autograss car and a locost chassis using it)
£12 a fill and 1 fill will probably see you through 2 complete scratch builds, certainly more than one anyway!
Retro RWD is the way forward...........automotive fabrication, car restoration, sheetmetal work, engine conversion
retro car restoration and tuning
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andrews_45
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| posted on 23/4/06 at 02:56 PM |
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You should be getting longer use with the sip migmate using small bottles. turn your regulator to 3/4 turns open. Should get a decent weld indoors
and last about an hour
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RazMan
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| posted on 23/4/06 at 03:33 PM |
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Thanks for all the tips guys.
I have just stripped the torch down to service it and it looks like the brass valve was sticking slightly - enough to let a little gas through in the
off position. A little WD40 made it much easier to operate so hopefully my gas will last a little longer now. I will also try reducing the flow a
little rather than just turning it on to the full position.
Cheers,
Raz
When thinking outside the box doesn't work any more, it's time to build a new box
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