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Busa, gen 2 crank into gen 1 motor ?
Jon Ison - 15/1/13 at 07:31 PM

Anyone done this mod, takes motor to 1340 ?


KJK - 15/1/13 at 08:18 PM

You need to u2 u to cosmick he did this to his engine so it can be done


cosmick - 18/1/13 at 05:21 PM

Hi Jon,

Yes I have done this conversion and it has been running successfully throughout 2012. There are 2 ways of doing this, one is to use the new crank with the existing con rods. This will require a 1mm spacer Cometic gasket to fit underneath the cylinder. The advantage of this is you keep your pistons and rings and conrods simply connecting to the GEN 2 crank. You will also need to buy adjustable cam wheels for you camshafts to adjust the timing of the cams due to the increased height of the head.

Method 2 is to use GEN 2 crank, conrods and pistons. These con rods are shorter with a different compression height and use a different sized gudgeon pin. This way does not require a 1mm spacer and also does not need adjustable sprockets as the cam shaft heights remain the same.

I used method 1 and put the cam timing to standard. The net result on a dyno was 15 hp increase and 6ft/lbs of torque increase. However the torque curve is impressively flat and the car makes 75ft/lbs at just 3000 rpm with a maximum 97ft/lbs at 7800rpm. Bearing in mind that most 1000cc engines make 75ft/lbs peak torque and much higher up the rev range, i was pleased with this.
I use my car for a mix of Road and Track days. The reliability has been second to none and on track it does get used. If you need any more info, just ask.


Jon Ison - 15/2/13 at 06:24 PM

Update.......

Brand spanking new gen 2 crank going in (thanks to powertec removing them for there mega bucks radical engine builds) 2 pistons looking tired so need a new set, if buying new pistons guess they need to grow a bit so better bore the block, Will report back early next month when it's run in and been re mapped.


daniel mason - 15/2/13 at 06:44 PM

theres a gen 2 crank on pistonheads for sale,its been up for weeks!


Jon Ison - 15/2/13 at 07:22 PM

Not looked, how much ? Brand new rules out worrying about it's history though, wasn't expensive either.


daniel mason - 15/2/13 at 07:38 PM

its brand new and £300. in kit car section classifieds


Jon Ison - 15/2/13 at 07:58 PM

Great price for a new crank, that's what I paid plus vat though unfortunately. Suzuki want £800 plus.


daniel mason - 15/2/13 at 08:12 PM

he said he paid £900. i was thinking about it but have spent too much already. good luck!


:{THC}:YosamiteSam - 17/2/13 at 04:21 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Jon Ison
Update.......

Brand spanking new gen 2 crank going in (thanks to powertec removing them for there mega bucks radical engine builds) 2 pistons looking tired so need a new set, if buying new pistons guess they need to grow a bit so better bore the block, Will report back early next month when it's run in and been re mapped.


you replace piston rings on busa? id heard they have a ceramic coating on that makes you buy new block?

or do you simply rebore bigger - new pistons - but then again ceramic coating issues?


Jon Ison - 18/2/13 at 01:08 PM

Re bore and re coat, £600.


Ciavatta - 17/3/13 at 11:02 PM

quote:
Originally posted by cosmick
... You will also need to buy adjustable cam wheels for you camshafts to adjust the timing of the cams due to the increased height of the head.


Hello Cosmick

I did the same mod as you, but never heard about the quoted part.

Can you please give me more info about that?

Now the car is completely stripped, awaiting for a new chassis, but when it was still running I noticed the power delivery was a bit too rich in the lower end, I thought the engine needed a remap, as I was using a powercommander... But at this point I'm starting to think the issue was with the timing. It sounds right to you?

Just for info, I bought a new gen2 crank from powertech from a really good price (+1 thanks to them removing from new busas ) and new gen2 main bearings from Suzuki.

cheers


cosmick - 18/3/13 at 09:00 PM

Hi Ciavatta,
Check out A.P.E Hayabusa adjustable cam sprockets. These are not Suzuki parts and they are designed to replace the standard sprocket. You need to press off the original sprocket and replace them with the adjustable type. If you need more information drop me a U2U.

Cheers, cosmick


Jon Ison - 6/4/13 at 06:01 PM

Dropped engine back in today, started 1st push of button, all 1441cc's of her..........


Jon Ison - 11/5/13 at 06:08 PM

Further update, been on rollers this morning.

Just slightly more than max torque available prior to engine rebuild now on tap at 60% throttle.

Rear wheel bhp up by 28.

Same dyno.


sam919 - 10/11/13 at 01:37 PM

Some good info there, so its a good way of getting an extra 20 ish bhp and more torque? Ive been reading some US forum and its all a minefield with regards to the best way to do it.

I have the engine so im off to start purschasing the bits for the re-build,.......if its worth it, claims of 7hp is a bit worrying !

Any further feedback on what been done?


Ciavatta - 22/11/13 at 03:26 PM

I think it is woth doing if you've to change the crank due to a failed journal or somethink like that. If you want to swap the cranks just for HP, I think you would place the money on different mods. (Head porting/cams/Bigger Pistons or Supercharging)

[Edited on 22/11/13 by Ciavatta]


sam919 - 26/11/13 at 09:35 PM

Its a pretty cost effective mod if you can get the parts cheapish from RPE, crank anyway,.......for the figures quoted. Cams, SC etc you start getting into big money.


daniel mason - 26/11/13 at 10:06 PM

id say by building a caterham busa you'll be spending mega bucks anyway! ask me how i found that out

[Edited on 26/11/13 by daniel mason]


sam919 - 26/11/13 at 10:18 PM

Aye thats right, its still a better shout from the three rebuilds at 5 grand a pop on an already 14 grand install! in 8 hours..........300bhp Duratecs, never again haha


daniel mason - 26/11/13 at 10:26 PM

speak to darren luke (DSL on the forums) he always has busa bits as he has a caterham busa with 1585 motor


sam919 - 27/11/13 at 09:08 AM

OK cheers, I recognise that name from pH forum and he's chatted quite a bit about his car on there. I've put the engine up for sale now anyway to go down a different route!


Ciavatta - 27/11/13 at 11:21 AM

quote:
Originally posted by sam919
Its a pretty cost effective mod if you can get the parts cheapish from RPE, crank anyway,.......


Totally agree, I bought a bargain Gen2 crank from RPE indeed!
But I have to change it anyway, due to a worn crank journal.

If you put into the equation also a pair of adjustable cam sprockets, new gaskets, spacer plate, and rebuild/degreeing labour... You're going to spend big money for not so much HP gain, IMO.
40 more cc's doesn't make a big difference to me, I think the point to swap for a Gen2 crank is the uprated oil routing on the mains, not the HP figure.

With a grand or so, and an healty engine, it would be more cost effective another route, like ported head+new cams, as it seems this is the area where you can find most of the hidden horses. Or maybe a stroker kit, if you're looking for a real step in displacement.

Just my 2 cents (Eurocents actually, so a bit less than "the real" 20 pence )


sam919 - 27/11/13 at 05:03 PM

Good points, but with the fugures that have been quoted above you'd struggle to get near for the price, thats why im interested in the 15bhp and 6lbft claims for this rise in hp for swapping the crank and using the following components?

Crank - 260 RPE on Ebay
Sprockets - 160 Again RPE
Cometic spacer - 50
Gasket set - 180 (full set)

Total - 650



A set of decent cams - 750 cheaper if exchange

Head Work - ???


Labour is going to come into each equation if your not doing it yourself, but if your getting the crank swapped its a pretty simple job i would have thought 250-300 quid/ days work max, which brings you to a grand that youve said

I agree top end work would be a way to get more power but RPE quoted me 3 grand for this?! for 195bhp

I'd like to hear about the people that have done this to get a true appreciation for the mod.


sam919 - 27/11/13 at 05:05 PM

Good points, but with the fugures that have been quoted above you'd struggle to get near for the price, thats why im interested in the 15bhp and 6lbft claims for this rise in hp for swapping the crank and using the following components?

Crank - 260 RPE on Ebay
Sprockets - 160 Again RPE
Cometic spacer - 50
Gasket set - 180 (full set)

Total - 650



A set of decent cams - 750, cheaper if exchange (about 280 odd quid)

Head Work - ???


Labour is going to come into each equation if your not doing it yourself, but if your getting the crank swapped its a pretty simple job i would have thought 250-300 quid/ days work max, which brings you to a grand that youve said

I agree top end work would be a way to get more power but RPE quoted me 3 grand for this?! for 195bhp

I'd like to hear about the people that have done this to get a true appreciation for the mod.