08:00 15/3/11 News is not good from Japan and is getting worse , clearly they never anticipated the emergency cooling systems would have to run for
days/weeks/months and didn't give them enough hardening to survive a Tsunnami.
One cannot help but feel for the plant engineers who will be doing their best under circumstances of extreme personal danger and many of the staff
will have lost their families in the disaster.
If one good thing comes out of this tragic mess it will be to put gas cooled reactors back on to the agenda.
[Edited on 15/3/11 by britishtrident]
You might find this interesting reading:
The Register
A different viewpoint, away from the shrieking headlines...
Note: it's slightly out of date now, but the main analysis is worth reading.
[Edited on 15/3/11 by David Jenkins]
Some very interesting reading Dave. Far from the drama of the media, giving the impression that a Japanese Chernobyl is minutes away.
I think the big worry is that the anti nuclear bunch are going to capitalise on the news and try to stop new nuclear stations in this country and else
where.
The same people who don't want wind farms near their homes or tidal schemes in their rivers, or indeed wave schemes off the coast where they sail
their yachts. And coal is a def no no.
Sorry, nimby rant over. Nuclear is needed, and we have little choice.
And yes, I do feel for the Japanese workers. I suspect they will do their job no matter what.
BTW the link makes an interesting read. Seems that however we prepare for nature, we can still get caught out
Its all very worrying, but personally I think the reactors have stood up incredibly well. Strongest earth quake recorded in over 100 years, massive
tsunami, hourly aftershocks that are severe in their own right and (if what we are led to believe is true) no actual melt down yet. And its over 40
year old technology. I personally think its held up better than if this had happened in some other developing countries.
If anything we want to be copying their current design and making slight improvements. Not putting the whole nuclear debate back 50 years.
Obviously if it all goes mushroom shaped later in the week I will eat my words. But so far I have huge respect for the Japanese and how well the
nation is coping. Although I am only keeping tabs on the BBC reports which seems to be more level headed.
ETA: just read that link, pretty much agree with most of that. I'm not Pro or Anti nuclear fuel, just don't use this as an argument for the
Anti brigade.
Did we all stop driving cars after the BP oil spill? No we bloody well did not
[Edited on 15/3/11 by balidey]
Probably a faked account but I just copied this from the BBC news feed..
quote:
0741: Rock star Bryan Adams tweets: "Calling all the great musicians and singers in the world, we should do a concert for Japan."
Something I thought was very suspicious was that apparently the mobile generators that were brought in couldn't be hooked up as they had the "wrong plugs". I simply don't believe that; if the only thing that stood between you and a core meltdown was the wrong connectors, you'd have the connectors off and have it hard wired ASAP. Wiring codes can take a back seat in this situation.
I'd guess that we're not talking 15A generators here - they're probably trying to connect hundreds or thousands of Amps at high
voltage. The sort of power that will fry equipment if the connections aren't 100% right.
You can imagine all the safety interlocks around the connectors too - "if it isn't right, you're not going to connect to ME!"
And all the while they're trying to make these connections, they're waiting for the roof to blow off the building at any time... 
[Edited on 15/3/11 by David Jenkins]
An elephant in the room?
Thats the last thing the poor workers at the nuclear power plant need! 
One positive in it all - it is most probably a good time to buy Uranium shares as some have dropped 40% in the past two days. I know I will be 
And here's a very interesting Japanese perspective on the diaster. Shows their level of preparedness very well indeed. Makes you wonder what
levels of preparation other countries have to deal with natural or manmade scenarios
http://www.kalzumeus.com/2011/03/13/some-perspective-on-the-japan-earthquake/
That's a good link - very informative.
It also has a link to further info - MITNSE
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Something I thought was very suspicious was that apparently the mobile generators that were brought in couldn't be hooked up as they had the "wrong plugs". I simply don't believe that; if the only thing that stood between you and a core meltdown was the wrong connectors, you'd have the connectors off and have it hard wired ASAP. Wiring codes can take a back seat in this situation.
Personally I hope the Anti Nuke brigade give it the big one! You must be mad to think nuclear power is safe after this! How can you all be so blind as
to think a reactor that may well be leaking fissionable material is OK?
A couple of years ago I made a brief study of Chernobyl and Pripyat. I intend to go there in the next few years to have a look for myself, meanwhile
heres a few pics of the place to remind you of what nuclear fuel does to the planet when it all goes wrong, which it does!
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=pripyat&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=40F_TYzCMIyBhQee37mqBw&ved=0CEYQsAQ&b
iw=1680&bih=825
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
I'd guess that we're not talking 15A generators here - they're probably trying to connect hundreds or thousands of Amps at high voltage. The sort of power that will fry equipment if the connections aren't 100% right.
You can imagine all the safety interlocks around the connectors too - "if it isn't right, you're not going to connect to ME!"
And all the while they're trying to make these connections, they're waiting for the roof to blow off the building at any time...
[Edited on 15/3/11 by David Jenkins]
And when a dam goes, up to 230,000 thought dead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam
And coal mining is a nice cuddly industry with only >2,000 miners killed in China in 2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Dangers_to_miners
quote:
Originally posted by scudderfish
And when a dam goes, up to 230,000 thought dead
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banqiao_Dam
And coal mining is a nice cuddly industry with only >2,000 miners killed in China in 2004
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_mining#Dangers_to_miners
quote:
Originally posted by mangogrooveworkshop
Im sorry but electricery comes in two flavours dc and ac............single or 3 phase. A motor is a dumb animal and would be used to drive the pumps. I work with electrical stuff all day.............I would have made a plan.....and those plugs would have been made to work.
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
Personally I hope the Anti Nuke brigade give it the big one! You must be mad to think nuclear power is safe after this! How can you all be so blind as to think a reactor that may well be leaking fissionable material is OK?
I work for the largest Rental power company in the World.
Our standard equipment has the ability to tap at all commercially used high voltages upto 20kv.
In any distribution there is usually somewhere on the system that power can be supplied for a temporary solution even direct onto the motor if
necessary and control the generator speed and fields to give a soft start.
High voltage systems do not plug in but use bolted connections.
I am sure that the power station engineers tried everything they could to keep the cooloing pumps running, the problem is that few people, if any, in
the media have the knowledge, or will, to understand what is really happening.
Incidentally our share price went up by 120p yesterday !
quote:
Originally posted by richardlee237
I work for the largest Rental power company in the World.
Our standard equipment has the ability to tap at all commercially used high voltages upto 20kv.
In any distribution there is usually somewhere on the system that power can be supplied for a temporary solution even direct onto the motor if necessary and control the generator speed and fields to give a soft start.
High voltage systems do not plug in but use bolted connections.
I am sure that the power station engineers tried everything they could to keep the cooloing pumps running, the problem is that few people, if any, in the media have the knowledge, or will, to understand what is really happening.
Incidentally our share price went up by 120p yesterday !
Yes, but look where I work !!
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
Personally I hope the Anti Nuke brigade give it the big one! You must be mad to think nuclear power is safe after this! How can you all be so blind as to think a reactor that may well be leaking fissionable material is OK?
"Personally I hope that people do their own research rather than believing everything they read in the media and don't jump to silly
conclusions. Japan have (or rather had) over 47 gigawatts generated by nuclear power. What do you suggest this is replaced with?"
Errr.... isn't it obvious? You need 7,500,650,200,987,696,531 of the biggest wind turbines you can get you hands on. 
Gas cooled reactors such the UKs AGR and the Canadian CANDU wouldn't have this type of problem, I used to live looking out at the Magnox and AGR station at Huntertston and never had the slightest concern about the site.
you know, never realised (or thought about) hunterston being nuclear powered. absolutely no concern over it at all. its only a few miles away from me
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Personally I hope that people do their own research rather than believing everything they read in the media and don't jump to silly conclusions.
quote:
Originally posted by David Jenkins
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Personally I hope that people do their own research rather than believing everything they read in the media and don't jump to silly conclusions.
I no longer trust the media to tell the truth on ANYTHING. They give half-truths, distort the truth and sometimes simply lie, just to get a sensational story.
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
Personally I hope the Anti Nuke brigade give it the big one! You must be mad to think nuclear power is safe after this! How can you all be so blind as to think a reactor that may well be leaking fissionable material is OK?
quote:
Originally posted by Strontium Dog
Personally I hope the Anti Nuke brigade give it the big one! You must be mad to think nuclear power is safe after this! How can you all be so blind as to think a reactor that may well be leaking fissionable material is OK?
A couple of years ago I made a brief study of Chernobyl and Pripyat. I intend to go there in the next few years to have a look for myself, meanwhile heres a few pics of the place to remind you of what nuclear fuel does to the planet when it all goes wrong, which it does!
http://www.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=pripyat&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=40F_TYzCMIyBhQee37mqBw&ved=0CEYQsAQ&b iw=1680&bih=825
this may seem like a completely selfish thought, but has anyone considered investing in the stock markets after all the news hype has moved on? stocks
in the japanese nuclear plants have plummeted, and if the place does survive, as in not blow up completely, i will be half tempted to invest....
in fact id be tempted with a few japanese companies...
Here's a thought for you - how many people have died through oil, gas and coal exploration and energy production?
How many people have died through nuclear energy supply and production?
Would you rather rely on oil and gas from Russia, Libya, Iraq, Saudi Arabia etc etc, or be totally self sufficient in energy? Especially when the oil
and gas start to run out.
We must be totally bonkers NOT to be building new nuclear power plants here in the UK.
quote:
Originally posted by blakep82
you know, never realised (or thought about) hunterston being nuclear powered. absolutely no concern over it at all. its only a few miles away from me
One persons view of Chernobyl ...
http://www.kiddofspeed.com/
So far from what i've read the Japanese reactors have done REMARKABLY well. They've stood up to a earthquake 5 times stronger than they were
designed for. They've struggled due to having diesel generators swamped by the wave & the electricity substation switching station thingy
underground and .... swamped with water.
They never anticipated the tidal wave and thats whats caused the problems. The lessons to be learnt are about improving the backup procedures, if
they'd been able to circulate water after hitting the emergency earthquake stop button we wouldn't have an issue.
This planet needs either a MASS reduction in energy usage or a reliable, cheap, energy source that has minimal pollution. Nuclear power has pollution,
that can be deadly, but by comparison I think its far better than fossil. The biggest issue is the terrorist threat / opportunity it presents. If we
could figure out fission then we'd be in such a fantastic place ....... but we live in hope.
Nobody really likes nuclear (for those in the US thats New-Klear) but it sure beats tallow candles and dung burning just imagine the pollution ;-)
The Canadian CANDU reactor is water cooled similar to the Steam Generating Heavy Water Reactor I worked on back in the day.
We need more Nuclear power.
Neil
Something I do find a bit worrying; China has 13 nuclear power stations in operation, and 25 in construction. I hope they didn't examine Chernobyl and work out how to build it more cheaply...
quote:
Originally posted by MikeRJ
Something I do find a bit worrying; China has 13 nuclear power stations in operation, and 25 in construction. I hope they didn't examine Chernobyl and work out how to build it more cheaply...
quote:
Originally posted by richardlee237
Yes, but look where I work !!
having worked in some of our oldest and the newest nuke stations in this country id like to give my input , most of the cooling systems are rather low
tech think more titanic than star trek ..... its just the damage the tidal wave did that fooked every thing , you cant put a supply station in a
airing cupboard to dry out .... id like to see wind turbine on every house , solar panels for every new build , the wash , seven and humber esturys
used too , massive amounts of water that could be used to make power !!!! electric thats the way to go , what we need is a locost se7en crossed with a
c5 lol