Wadders
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 posted on 28/1/11 at 11:47 PM |
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wireless network is sh#te
We have a BT Home hub wireless thingy, and the coverage is woeful. It constantly chucks me off the web when i'm in the lounge etc using a
laptop, works ok when your in the same room.
Admitedly its probably in the worst possible place, up in the top corner of the house in an extension, but thats where the broadband line comes in
.... so without actually moving the line it will be difficult to re-site centrally.
I believe you can get gadgets that are supposed to improve range....are they any good?...any recommendations?
I keep getting the urge to jump up and down on my netbook.... i know this is irrational, but one day it will happen....please help
i can't really afford a new netbook
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NigeEss
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:00 AM |
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Have you any phone sockets in a more central room ?
I assume you have the router currently plugged into the master socket as per
recommendations. Mine is in a slave upstairs (master in a daft place too) and
works fine.
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so.................Douglas Adams.
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ShaunB
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:26 AM |
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I agree with looking to plug the HH into an extension socket nearer where to where you use the Netbook. The other thing to check is how many other
wifi networks are using the same channel as you. I downloaded an application called inssider
onto my Netbook and ran it in various locations in my house. At one stage I was picking up 10 networks, 4 of which were using the same channel as me.
I told the HH to use a less used channel and things improved.
Shaun.
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Tris
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:28 AM |
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I do wireless networks and surveys (along with many other things) for a living.
First thing to say is that most AP's (Wireless Access Points) with built in antenna's tend to be poor, and I believe the home hub is one
of these although ive never seen one in person. Routers with two phased antenna's are best (as in pick below)
The other thing is frequency. There's two main types of wireless network out there - 802.11b/g which has been around for ages and works at
2.4Ghz, and 802.11a/n which works at 5Ghz (and also 2.4G for 'n' . Unless your laptop is new or of a high spec, i suspect it may only
support 2.4G.
I mention this as 5G tends to have better penetration, especially through stone/brick.
Anyway - couple of things to check. With 802.11b, you have a number of channels (14) which you statically pick within your routers configuration. If
someone else near you is on the same channel as you, it will obviously cause issues and reduce range. Its worth changing this (you can scan to see
what channels are in use).
The channels within 802.11b actually overlap (there's a table at the bottom of this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11b), so if next door
are on Ch1, don't use Ch2 but go straight to Ch14. Unless your house is built of lead, you should easily get 20m or so range.
You can also change your router, or if its really an issue for you, install a second access point in the opposite end of your house. This would
involve running a network cable between the router and the second AP, but would offer the best coverage. In this setup, you would have two
SSID's (network broadcast names), on two separate channels, and configure your laptop to use what ever was best.
Hope this helps
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wilkingj
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:31 AM |
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IS your Wifi connection from the Lappy on an integrated wifi module, or is it a USB plug in one?
If its USB Plug in, get a USB extension cable and try to put the USB (wifi) dongle higher up, or in a better location (locally to the lappy) This can
work if the signal is marginal.
You can get range extenders, and siting one of these somewhere in your house may help.
However..... ALWAYS REMEMBER that when increasing your signal from the internnet connection end, you make it more available to others (possibly
hackers).
Personally I HATE WiFi, anything sent by Radio Waves is subject to interception by eavesdroppers.
DO NOT use Wep encryption or worse still NONE at all.
Always use WPA or better.
You BT Hub should have WPA as standard, but check in the settings (very early ones were WEP)
(open Browser and type in "http://192.168.1.254" without the ""'s to acccess the Hubs settings and info.
As said above try re-siting your Hub. Even moving it a few inches further away from a wall or out of a corner may just give you enough improvement
in signal to make it more reliable. Putting it high up on a shelf could increse the signal levels on the floor above.
You have to remember that these devices have on average 80 MILLIWatts ( Thats 80/1000's of ONE Watt power output)
This is absolutely SOD ALL in Radio terms, and has to be that way or there would be so much congestion that Wifi would be even less useable than it
is.
I have my WiFi Switched OFF, and everything is connected by Cables in my house.
Its faster throughput, Much more reliable, and impossible to for hackers to eavesdrop or connect to my network without having to get through my front
door firewall.
All it took was a 100metre drum of Cat5E cable (about £35) a bag of RJ45 crimp plugs, and a pair of crimpers, and a bit of time.
The wiring of the plugs is readily available on the Net. If you can wire up a Kit Car, then you can manage 8 wires in a row in a plug, given the
wiring from a good website (Its not straight wiring, but is not difficult at all)
Hope that helps...
EDIT:
I dont know where you get your info from, but geneerally as you go higher in frequency it become more prone to attenuation from objects like walls
etc.
The higher frequencies tend to be more readuly absorbed by walls, trees etc etc.
The 5Ghz Wifi is good at the moment, as there arent many people using it. Thus its relatively quiet on there.
Whilst the 2.4Ghz (current WiFi band) is saturated with users and also shared with Baby alarms, Video Senders, Door Bells, and just about any other
type of wireless connected devices. (Let alone mentionioning us Radio Hams!)
Just thought I would mention it!
[Edited on 29/1/2011 by wilkingj]
1. The point of a journey is not to arrive.
2. Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Best Regards
Geoff
http://www.v8viento.co.uk
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Wadders
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:42 AM |
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Thanks for the replies chaps...interesting stuff.... the router is on a dedicated broadband line, so no slave sockets.
looks like i have a few options to try though.
Have to Love LB, it has experts in all fields, never fails.
Thanks again
Al
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Liam
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 01:02 AM |
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Just get an extension cable for the router and put it somewhere better more central. No need for a second access point or owt like that unless you
live in a mansion.
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zilspeed
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 08:07 AM |
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As above, move the channel to the one furthest from any neighbouring overlapping ones.
I did it and it went from cack and unreliable to rock solid.
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SeaBass
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 08:13 AM |
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First step, download NetStumbler and scan the area for other Networks and their bands.
All the competing wireless networks I can pickup are homehubs and they're all on band 11.
Needless to say I'm on another band away from them with my linksys.
I've also got an external antennae which made a big difference.
I don't deal in state secrets and live in a small village so I'm not concerned by "haxxors".
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karlak
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 08:16 AM |
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We had fairly similar issues getting the kids computers and Xbox's to work in an increasingly busier WIFI area.
I have resolved this by buying some "homeplugs" and now we have a rock solid connection using the house wiring. You do need to check that
the mains wiring in the different areas of the house are on the same common ditribution board though. These things just plug into a 3 pin socket -
one next to the router, with a Lan cable to a spare socket. Tho other is plugged into a main socket in the room you have the computer equipment. We
now have a "hardwired" connection using these in a upstairs study and the two boys share one plug using a cheap hub, work perfectly 
They connect automatically to each other and simply provide a hardwired solution between the router and whatever you need to connect. You get varying
speeds, but for normal internet type stuff, the 85mb versions are fine.
See here for some examples - http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/default_ShopGroup.asp?ShopGroupID=61
MK Indy - 2litre Duratec - Omex 600 - Jenvey throttle bodies - ETB DigiDash2
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britishtrident
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 08:41 AM |
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The problem is mainly caused by a combination of BT Router (they have a reputation for poor wifi performance) and reduction in signal due your
building.
Home Plug -- Networking over 240v Mains is a good robust way round the problem but because you are using a laptop laptop it is only part of the
solution. What you need is a wireless range extender sometimes called a wifi access point.
When buying access Wifi router or access point always look for one with an aerial that can be unscrewed this allows the use of a high gain aerial.
For networking over mains you need a 2 plug starter kit the leading brands are Devolo or Solwise --- no point in buying anything but the most
basic (slowest) versions for what you want you can get them from Maplin or ebay.
For an access point I have found D-Link give the best performance I have used the D-link DWL-G700AP very successfully on a few sites there is a
good seller on ebay selling refurbished as new units at a very good price Ebay item 390283892863
You will also want a high gain aerial to screw on to the D-Link Access point such as ebay item 360339481465
[Edited on 29/1/11 by britishtrident]
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martyn_16v
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 08:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by wilkingj
I dont know where you get your info from, but geneerally as you go higher in frequency it become more prone to attenuation from objects like walls
etc.
The higher frequencies tend to be more readuly absorbed by walls, trees etc etc.
The 5Ghz Wifi is good at the moment, as there arent many people using it. Thus its relatively quiet on there.
Whilst the 2.4Ghz (current WiFi band) is saturated with users and also shared with Baby alarms, Video Senders, Door Bells, and just about any other
type of wireless connected devices. (Let alone mentionioning us Radio Hams!)
[geekery]I was going to mention that. 5GHz doesn't penetrate nearly as well as 2.4GHz. It does however scatter (bounce) much better, and 802.11a
has the advantage over plain b/g in that the OFDM modulation used is much better at dealing with multipath interference. This can make a big
difference in the right environment, but in your average home I'd say absorption is going to outweigh any benefit you might see because of the
limited paths the signal would have to take in a closed environment.[/geekery]
Amongst other things I install wireless network infrastructure in theme parks, and unless there's a really pressing reason not to, I only use
5GHz equipment. Not only does it travel better over reasonably open spaces with the odd bit of big steelwork in the way, but it also avoids the hordes
of iphones merrily roaming away, and it's (currently) rare to find a site where you can't pick yourself a free channel or two in some
clear bandwidth.
Homeplugs function quite well, but don't mention that you're using them to any radio ham friends you may have, they view them as the work
of the devil due to the excessive amount of electrical noise they generate
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Tris
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 09:58 AM |
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Regards 5Ghz, i think its a mixture of things.
Yes the lower the frequency, normally the better propagation (Long wave vers FM for example), but there's a number of other factors at play.
Firstly the antenna is physically smaller within the laptop or phone for 5Ghz. So where perviously only a 1/4 wave would fit (for example), now a
bigger (and more efficient) antenna can be used within the confines of the handset.
There's then the whole interference thing. I deploy wireless VoIP solutions and we always try and keep the voice and data on separate bands as
like you state, 2.4Ghz is so over crowded. Ofcom were talking about raising the power limit within the 2.4Ghz space to 10watts !!!, but i think that
idea is long dead now (although this is an interesting read if your into this kind of stuff -
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/powerlimits/responses/thecloud.pdf)
But the most benefit comes from the MIMO of 802.11n AP - your effectively using multiple antennas at the same time, which increases your EIRP
(radiated power).
Cheers
Tris
[Edited on 29/1/11 by Tris]
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MakeEverything
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 10:08 AM |
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Homeplugs arent totally secure either, unless you have a filter on your mains incoming supply. They do work well though.
Ive had a few BT HH and they are shite. Everyone i know that has had one, says that they experience the same symptoms as you describe.
If you can, replacing it with an aftermarket one would work, but youll need to configure it.
Kindest Regards,
Richard.
...You can make it foolProof, but youll never make it Idiot Proof!...
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mr_pr
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 10:34 AM |
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Yep, had exactly these issues as I live in an apartment block. I was losing connection in my own room, I also wanted to share the connection with
someone else who was out of range of my homehub. So I did the following.
First I scanned the local wireless networks. Found the channel furthest from any other and used that. Worked brilliantly for about 24 hours until all
the other BT HH in the area auto changed their channel to match mine. (If you have opted in for BTFON they do this to run all the BTFON/BTOPENZONE
networks on the same channel.)
I needed to extend the range of the network and keep it on a channel that was free from interference AND find a way to stop all the BTHH from changing
to match my homehub so I googled for compatible Wireless repeaters/Access points. I found that the Edimax EW 7416APN V2 would do the job.
As the Edimax EW 7416APN V2 has a much greater range than the BT HH I just connected it using an ethernet cable through the LAN ports on the HH and
Edimax EW 7416APN V2. It was very easy to set up following the instructions provided (and also on the Edimax website).
I can share with the other person and by selecting channel 1 on my HH and channel 11 on my Edimax EW 7416APN V2 I have removed interference. (All the
local HHs tune to channel 1 to match my HH and my Edimax broadcasts my wireless network far and wide on channel 11! Works perfectly.
If wireless interference is not your issue, just range, then use the Edimax EW 7416APN V2 in repeater mode. It is one of few Repeaters that the HH is
compatible with, a simple google search shows the issues many people had with other types. The edimax however was so easy to set up when I followed
the instructions in either access point or repeater mode.
If you want any more info then let me know either on this thread or PM. I don't do it for a living but I found a damn good solution for this
little problem!
[Edited on 29/1/11 by mr_pr]
.JPG)
My Build Progress
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oldtimer
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 11:39 AM |
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Same BT HH issues for me - have changed channels several times now. Contradictory advice from BT doesn't help, eg, don't reset the
HH/reset the HH, or don't reset the HH - but unpower it for 20 secs, or don't unpower it or use the reset button - use the little pin-hole
reset point. I'm going to have my primary BT point moved!
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britishtrident
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 11:49 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by oldtimer
Same BT HH issues for me - have changed channels several times now. Contradictory advice from BT doesn't help, eg, don't reset the
HH/reset the HH, or don't reset the HH - but unpower it for 20 secs, or don't unpower it or use the reset button - use the little pin-hole
reset point. I'm going to have my primary BT point moved!
Alternatively ditch BT and migrate to Plusnet who are owned by by BT but give you a decent Thompson Wifi router (which is yours to keep after 1
year) great email options and loads of free extras andvery good support.
Another good ISP is O2 or Be ( O2 owns Be) also supply a decent Wifi router ( only on loan) but have poor email and other extras.
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mad4x4
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by karlak
We had fairly similar issues getting the kids computers and Xbox's to work in an increasingly busier WIFI area.
I have resolved this by buying some "homeplugs" and now we have a rock solid connection using the house wiring. You do need to check that
the mains wiring in the different areas of the house are on the same common ditribution board though. These things just plug into a 3 pin socket -
one next to the router, with a Lan cable to a spare socket. Tho other is plugged into a main socket in the room you have the computer equipment. We
now have a "hardwired" connection using these in a upstairs study and the two boys share one plug using a cheap hub, work perfectly
They connect automatically to each other and simply provide a hardwired solution between the router and whatever you need to connect. You get varying
speeds, but for normal internet type stuff, the 85mb versions are fine.
See here for some examples - http://www.broadbandbuyer.co.uk/default_ShopGroup.asp?ShopGroupID=61
You have to watch - Anyone on the same electrical phase could also pick up your network with those things..... Make sure you enforce security. Best
way is use a router and a CAT5 cable but not always practical.
Scot's do it better in Kilts.
MK INDY's Don't Self Centre Regardless of MK Setting !
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britishtrident
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 12:33 PM |
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I am amazed no body has marketed high level encryption for networking over mains
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gottabedone
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| posted on 29/1/11 at 01:35 PM |
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.....probably because they wouldn't be plug and play any more - these things are convenient but might not be so if you have to pair them with
your machines.
Cat5/6 the next time that you do any diy is the best route - especially for those that are lucky enough to have cable!
Steve
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