andrew-theasby
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 07:21 PM |
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Paypal claim-any advice and beware!
Any body ever had a claim issued against them by paypal? I sold something to someone in america on ebay at the end of april and posted it on the
28th. Theyre now saying that they havent received it and that i arent replying to their e-mails. Ive replied by email and through ebay, but ive
only ever received 1 email from her. Anyway, thats not the point. Shes now started proceedings to claim the money back through paypal. Paypal
say i have 10 days to respond before they refund her. The only way to respond is through their automated service where you have 3 choices- 1issue a
refund, 2ive already issued a refund outside of paypal (which theyll say you arent protected by their seller protection)and 3 provide a tracking
number, which i cant do as she didnt pay for or request recorded delivery (the p+p was already £15 for a £5 parcel on standard delivery). So i cant
respond to the claim, which means they will award a refund automatically. The annnoying bit is she hasnt even waited the 25 working days before the
post office even consider it lost. Has this ever happened to anybody else as i want to know if they will debit my bank account for the refund or if
they can only refund her if the money is in my paypal account, surely theyre breaking the data protection act if there storing my bank account
details to access whenever they want without my permission? Its not that its a problem giving her a refund for a lost parcel, its just that it
isnt even classed as lost yet so i cant even claim off the post office for it, and it may still turn up. It appears that if you receive money by
paypal for anything then send it non recorded ie first class or standard parcels, no matter how low the value, the buyer can just claim the full
amount back throuugh paypal whether they receive it or not and without even waiting a realistic time for delivery, so BEWARE. Id like to hear if
anybody else has any experience of this as it seems it could happen to anyone. I trusted paypal up until now as i thought it was the safest way
to exchange money, but i arent so sure now 
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chockymonster
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 07:48 PM |
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Unfortunately if you don't send by recorded/signed for then you can get stuffed by an unscrupulous buyer.
I only ever offer recorded delivery, if the buyer doesn't want to pay for it then they shouldn't bid.
In your case paypal will deduct the balance from your paypal account. If you have no stored funds then your account will go negative. They will then
chase you for the money through debt collection etc.
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RichieC
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 07:50 PM |
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Unfortunately, PayPals seller protection relies on sending the goods with proof of posting (available on any letter or parcel from Royal Mail, not
just recorded/special delivery) to a registered address. Even if you have proof but send it to a non registered address(with paypal), they will not
back you and rule against you.
I have fallen foul of this when I sold some second hand bike parts. I sent them, they were seemingly "damaged". The guy complains
because I didnt have any proof of sending, they automatically ruled against me. I got back a fairing which someone had clearly put a hammer through
in retaliation - nice of him eh. I had 80 quid frozen in my paypal account while they investigated it. 28 days later they took said 80quid. To add
insult to injury the guy wouldnt supply me with proof of posting even though I asked in advance and offered to pay for the return post so that at
least I could claim from royal mail. I have my suspicions that he decided he didnt want the parts and deliberately damaged them to get a refund.
They dont have to do anything with your bank details, theyll just put a hold on the value of the goods from your paypal account. If your balance is
zero, you will go to -howevermuch. What you can do is close your account and ignore paypal, they cannot persue you for funds in this circumstance,
you will however have to accept you cant use your account again because they will take the amount as soon as you come into funds.
I fell foul of this from a guy who i bought a bottle of water wetter off, the d1ck head sold the product to about 10 buyers for about 5 quid each,
didnt send them and closed his account. Paypal were powerless to reclaim the funds as he was no longer a registered user, so it was our tuff titty.
Be very careful of Paypal, I have had many security concerns "your account has been accessed by a third party" type stuff. When they
resolve it they send me a questionaire. I slate them and say in it I dont know why I bother as they wont get back to me...............they dont get
back to me. Theyre only interested in positive feedback - thay are a complete bunch of idiots to deal with on the phone aswell, but hey, everyone
accepts paypal.
Rant over 
Good luck, Rich
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Hellfire
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 07:51 PM |
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Andy,
One of the reasons I avoid shipping out of the UK. When I do I always get a signed for delivery (extra few pennies) and buyer pays the bill
accordingly.
You can't be too careful... sorry to hear of your bad luck and hope it resolves amicably.
Steve
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ed_crouch
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 07:51 PM |
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Thats a tricky one!
I guess all you can do is try and get contact details for Paypal. They WILL have an office, and telephones, so if you can get through to a person, you
might be able to manage the situation.
That is the trouble these days: e-commerce is now so prevailent that its difficult trying to get hold of someone, and if your problem/query doesnt fit
into one of the process pigeonholes they set up...
I think you need to acvtually speak to someone.
I had a problem with Amazon, and had a hell of a job getting through to them, as all they say is that your query can be dealt with through the help
section. Well, it coudnt, and it took ages for them to understand that!
Sorry I cant be of more help, but good luck: remember: they may only appear to have a web interface, but there WILL be people in offices and they DO
have phones.
Ed.
I-iii-iii-iii-ts ME!
Hurrah.
www.wings-and-wheels.net
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andrew-theasby
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 08:13 PM |
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Thanks for replying,i always thought i was covering my self by keeping all the receipts as proof of postage (which i have for this one too),the
method i used for posting, they said at the post office, was insured for upto £28 if i remember rightly, which is why i used that service (£5
value + £15 p+p),didnt realise id need a tracking number. When the time is up, how much of it will i be able to claim back off the post office?
It does make me wonder whether the buyer is pulling a scam as the item i sold was a lathe tool! Surely they have them in America without paying £15
to post one from England. Ive a good mind like you say to close the account before they take the money, but ill give em a ring tommorrow and see.
Thanks
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Triton
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 08:31 PM |
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Happened to me twice now and both times I have sent the goods, that's why I don't take paypal anymore.
My Daughter has taken over production of the damn fine Triton race seats and her contact email is emmatrs@live.co.uk.
www.tritonraceseats.com
www.hairyhedgehog.com
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Deckman001
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 08:36 PM |
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It's stories like these that have detered me from selling my hubs via E-bay, too many risks for a sale to go sour 
Jason
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RichieC
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 08:59 PM |
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The up to £28 thing is standard cover for any 1st class mail. Your reciept isnt proof of posting, you need to request that which is either
handwritten or a print from the till. It says on it, proof of posting.
In my experience RM are VERY good at paying out, they are insured up to the hilt so can afford to be.
Rich
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 09:17 PM |
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I am not Ppal registered and never will be as it seems they are hand in glove with ebay. I only take cheques or Postal Orders and If anyone wants it
quicker and they want to send cash then thats fine at their own risk though.
Seems to me that when it all goes tits up, then the seller is always going to lose out in the reclaim AND feedback stakes, even if he's innocent
and the best ebayer ever up to that point.
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SixedUp
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| posted on 21/5/06 at 09:32 PM |
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EBay *own* PayPal. They bought them a few years ago. They go to every trouble to ensure that they are not classed as a bank etc so that they can
avoid all the usual protections that you would expect to get in the UK. Using PayPal (as a seller) is basically leaving yourself wide open to
problems.
Your mileage may vary of course, but I wouldn't touch them with a barge-pole, even if it had a condom on each end.
Cheers
Richard
[Edited on 21/5/06 by SixedUp]
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britishtrident
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| posted on 22/5/06 at 07:03 AM |
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I am pretty sure Pay Pal complaints are never even looked at by a human -- fully automated always sides with the buyer.
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Peteff
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| posted on 22/5/06 at 12:29 PM |
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Handy ebay checker site......
Goofbay where you can check on negative feedback, private feedback, how many watchers an item has and
all kinds of useful stuff including shill bidders.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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andrew-theasby
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| posted on 22/5/06 at 08:04 PM |
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Thanks for the link, thats quite useful. ive already tried it now to see how many watchers an item had. Didnt know you could do that. Ps, paypal
customer services is in america ive just found out, so it ll cost more than its worth to ring em. Got a second reminder today to respond, funny how
they can send that but they havent replied to my customer services e-mail yet Guess ill just have to learn from this one
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omega 24 v6
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| posted on 22/5/06 at 08:28 PM |
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Can't you pull all your funds from them and instruct your bank to ignore them???? If they are not a bank themselves this could be a possibility
perhaps.
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