daviep
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 12:56 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by johnny chimpo
With regards to all the figures etc getting batted about, this seems a very good video if you've got a spare 30mins to watch it.......
YouTube link
Thank you very much that is a good video and I can appreciate you view point.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 05:55 AM |
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Galloway's take on this seems to be sensible (can't believe I've just typed that)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6k7nZ1PFaSQ
Currency union will mean Scotland giving up sovereignty without the 52 MPs in Westminster to effect the fiscal policies. The SNP mean to retain the
£, the Queen as head of state, membership of NATO & the EU. Where is the independence in that?
The SNP intend to cut business tax by 3% to attract new businesses to Scotland. Rest assured the UK will cut its business taxes to be as good as or
better than Scotland, who do you think will win this 'race to the bottom'.
How can the SNP demand that the nuclear deterrent be moved from Scotland when they wish to remain in a club, NATO, which exists under the umbrella of
the Nuclear Deterrent from US, UK & France.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by jeffw]
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mcerd1
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 09:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Sam_68
Assuming the (more generous) geographical share, this suggests that North Sea oil and gas are worth about £5.6 billion to the Scottish economy
anyway... not enough to make a difference, and projected revenues are declining sharply?
oil money defiantly worked for Norway, so if Scotland was independent in the 60's / 70's we might have been able to cash in on that too -
but everyone knows its in decline, even Norway is looking for alternatives including some serious work on Thorium reactors
and regardless of how much money the north sea is currently worth - what do we do when it runs out ?
renewable energy like wind turbines is not a viable alternative as they cost stupid amounts to build and barely makes any net power or profit... (most
are currently backed by government subsidies)
also some folk would have us get rid of the nuclear reactors as well - so that means well be buying power from England/Europe with the money we
don't have 
[Edited on 26/8/2014 by mcerd1]
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 10:50 AM |
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Ultimately if Scotland, as a nation, wants to leave the union then goodbye and good luck.
Just don't expect to come back if times get tough and don't expect to use the Joint Account or the Credit Cards.
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 11:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Ultimately if Scotland, as a nation, wants to leave the union then goodbye and good luck.
Just don't expect to come back if times get tough
The main reason I am voting no, easy to leave but impossible to undo
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daviep
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 12:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Ultimately if Scotland, as a nation, wants to leave the union then goodbye and good luck.
Just don't expect to come back if times get tough and don't expect to use the Joint Account or the Credit Cards.
Thanks Jeff if it happens I'm sure Scotland will leave with enough assets and perhaps a little debt the exact details of which will be decided
by negotiation after the vote.
I don't blame the rest of the UK for being scared about Scottish Independence, if the UK government negotiate the separation with their usual
skill and foresight Scotland well end up with bank account and the credit card.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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whitestu
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 12:39 PM |
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It would be interesting to see how things pan out if Scotland votes to leave the UK and joins the EU, and then the UK vote to leave the EU.
Stu
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Mr Whippy
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 02:04 PM |
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yip one great big experiment with our kids futures
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whitestu
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 02:10 PM |
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quote:
yip one great big experiment with our kids futures
Otherwise known as life!
Not sure it has ever been any different.
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 02:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Ultimately if Scotland, as a nation, wants to leave the union then goodbye and good luck.
Just don't expect to come back if times get tough and don't expect to use the Joint Account or the Credit Cards.
Thanks Jeff if it happens I'm sure Scotland will leave with enough assets and perhaps a little debt the exact details of which will be decided
by negotiation after the vote.
I don't blame the rest of the UK for being scared about Scottish Independence, if the UK government negotiate the separation with their usual
skill and foresight Scotland well end up with bank account and the credit card.
Cheers
Davie
Davie
You miss-understand. I welcome Scottish independence. No more Labour Governments, shipbuilding back in Portsmouth and our reluctant brothers gone
into the category of 'foreigners'. No more Brown/Blair nonsense. We'll be round to tow the carriers away a week next Wednesday,
don't bother finishing them 
I guess you lot will want to borrow our language. I'm sure the SNP will want a language union to go with the currency malarkey. So someone
elses language/curreny/fiscal policy & head of state. Sounds like independence to me.
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scootz
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 04:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by whitestu
quote:
yip one great big experiment with our kids futures
Otherwise known as life!
Not sure it has ever been any different.
Yup! There's a lot of rhetoric from the 'Better Together' camp about the future of an independent Scotland being
'uncertain'. Well of course it will be... but it will be no more or less 'uncertain' than it ever was as part of the UK!
There will be good times, bad times, and a lot of in-between times. Pretty much as it was before, but under a Government that the majority of Scots
voted for.
It's Evolution Baby!
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daviep
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 05:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
Ultimately if Scotland, as a nation, wants to leave the union then goodbye and good luck.
Just don't expect to come back if times get tough and don't expect to use the Joint Account or the Credit Cards.
Thanks Jeff if it happens I'm sure Scotland will leave with enough assets and perhaps a little debt the exact details of which will be decided
by negotiation after the vote.
I don't blame the rest of the UK for being scared about Scottish Independence, if the UK government negotiate the separation with their usual
skill and foresight Scotland well end up with bank account and the credit card.
Cheers
Davie
Davie
You miss-understand. I welcome Scottish independence. No more Labour Governments, shipbuilding back in Portsmouth and our reluctant brothers gone
into the category of 'foreigners'. No more Brown/Blair nonsense. We'll be round to tow the carriers away a week next Wednesday,
don't bother finishing them
I guess you lot will want to borrow our language. I'm sure the SNP will want a language union to go with the currency malarkey. So someone
elses language/curreny/fiscal policy & head of state. Sounds like independence to me.
I didn't misunderstand you I was being entirely genuine when I thanked you for your sentiments which I took at face value.
As a side note the Scottish vote has not changed the outcome of elections for the previous 50 years, on the occasions there has been a Labour
government elected they would still have been elected even without any Scottish votes.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 05:21 PM |
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Actually that isn't true but we'll let it slid.
All joking apart, it will be a very sad day if Scotland votes to leave the union and I genuinely wish an independent Scotland well if that is what
happens.
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britishtrident
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 06:31 PM |
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Historical and constitutional point the Queen is not Queen of Britain or the UK she holds two crowns in UK. Queen of Scotland and Queen of
England ( which includes Wales and Ulster) the crowns are separate but joined since 1606 when the King of Scotland James VI inherited the English
crown. The Queen rules Ulster because it was colonised by England under James I (James VI) although the colonists were mainly Scottish protestants.
The principality of Wales comes under the crown of England because it was conquered by Edward Langshanks.
The union of the parliaments came about in 1707 because although Scotland and England shared a monarch the Scottish merchants were banned from
investing in English colonies in the Americas and the English were short of colonists.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by britishtrident]
[I] “ What use our work, Bennet, if we cannot care for those we love? .”
― From BBC TV/Amazon's Ripper Street.
[/I]
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smart51
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 07:02 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Historical and constitutional point the Queen is not Queen of Britain or the UK she holds two crowns in UK. Queen of Scotland and Queen of
England
Wasn't James I crowned Magna Britania (rather than simply adding the Crown of England to his collection)?
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 08:06 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtrident
Historical and constitutional point the Queen is not Queen of Britain or the UK she holds two crowns in UK. Queen of Scotland and Queen of
England ( which includes Wales and Ulster) the crowns are separate but joined since 1606 when the King of Scotland James VI inherited the English
crown. The Queen rules Ulster because it was colonised by England under James I (James VI) although the colonists were mainly Scottish protestants.
The principality of Wales comes under the crown of England because it was conquered by Edward Langshanks.
The union of the parliaments came about in 1707 because although Scotland and England shared a monarch the Scottish merchants were banned from
investing in English colonies in the Americas and the English were short of colonists.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by britishtrident]
She is not head of state of Ulster, Ulster and Northern Ireland are not the same thing. There are 9 counties in Ulster, only 6 made it into NI, the
rest are in Eire.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by jeffw]
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Sam_68
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 09:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by britishtridentThe union of the parliaments came about in 1707 because although Scotland and England shared a
monarch the Scottish merchants were banned from investing in English colonies in the Americas and the English were short of colonists.
It seems that the trend toward gross over-simplification of the issues isn't limited to the current 'Scottish issue'.
It would be equally (perhaps more) valid to say that the English motivation was simply to prevent any risk of Scotland choosing a different monarch to
England. In fact, the Scots weren't really a serious prospect for investing in the English colonies in America at the time due to the fact
that...
The main Scottish motivation, arguably, was that they needed England to bail them out financially after they trashed their economy with the Darien
misadventure.
Now there's a lesson that they might take heed of under current circumstances... trying to play with the big boys when you haven't
got the resources to carry it off can only end in tears!
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Scuzzle
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 09:22 PM |
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I don't think there will be any other result than a no vote, and probably a much larger majority voting to stay as is than any of these polls
are predicting. Anyone with anything to lose cannot afford to take the risk. There is an awful lot of pensioners in Scotland and a lot of people on
benefits and neither should be in a hurry to sign up to see their pensions and benefits diminished. The SNP never in a million years expected to be
in the position they find themselves in. They are only in power in Scotland due to Labours woeful performance when they were in power.
Independence sounds good and can be done but not without years possibly decades of hardship, there will be hyper inflation and financial crisis. If
Scotland was independent at the time of the last economic crisis we would already be bust.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by Scuzzle]
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daviep
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 09:32 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Scuzzle
If Scotland was independent at the time of the last economic crisis we would already be bust.
What is that based on?
Iceland and Ireland were both hit hard by the crisis but have recovered quicker than the UK.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 09:32 PM |
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Which is an interesting point. If there is an overwhelming NO vote, where does that leave the SNP?
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jeffw
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 09:33 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by Scuzzle
If Scotland was independent at the time of the last economic crisis we would already be bust.
What is that based on?
Iceland and Ireland were both hit hard by the crisis but have recovered quicker than the UK.
Cheers
Davie
Iceland are still bankrupt and Ireland is in receipt of a large EU bailout....Hardly poster children for an independent Scotland.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by jeffw]
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Scuzzle
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 10:07 PM |
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Salmond keeps quoting Icelandic countries as role models for independence but he never mentions how much more expensive everything is there,
it's £9 for a pint in Norway. Ireland does not have a Poundland it has a Twopoundland (or 2 Euro land). Thats what awaits an independent
Scotland.
Everyone bangs on about oil but if there is a tax deficit when we have oil and there are only 35 years left it might sound like a long time but
it's not enough to see out our lifetime never mind our kids. When the oil runs out and we are reduced to shale mining then all of a sudden
England will see itself as the country with the oil purely due to having the biggest land mass.
An overwhelming no vote should see off any future referendums for long enough, a narrow margin and you will be going through it all again in the near
future.
The SNP will still champion more powers for Scotland, - Devo Max which has always been the safe option anyway.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by Scuzzle]
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daviep
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 10:51 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by jeffw
quote:
Originally posted by daviep
quote:
Originally posted by Scuzzle
If Scotland was independent at the time of the last economic crisis we would already be bust.
What is that based on?
Iceland and Ireland were both hit hard by the crisis but have recovered quicker than the UK.
Cheers
Davie
Iceland are still bankrupt and Ireland is in receipt of a large EU bailout....Hardly poster children for an independent Scotland.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by jeffw]
Must be terrible for the people of Iceland being bankrupt, having to endure high employment and economic growth, who would want that?
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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Scuzzle
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 10:54 PM |
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Perhaps all the people in the UK who lost everything when the Icelandic banks collapsed can get a job there to rebuild their savings then.
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daviep
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| posted on 26/8/14 at 11:04 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Scuzzle
Salmond keeps quoting Icelandic countries as role models for independence but he never mentions how much more expensive everything is there,
it's £9 for a pint in Norway. Ireland does not have a Poundland it has a Twopoundland (or 2 Euro land). Thats what awaits an independent
Scotland.
Everyone bangs on about oil but if there is a tax deficit when we have oil and there are only 35 years left it might sound like a long time but
it's not enough to see out our lifetime never mind our kids. When the oil runs out and we are reduced to shale mining then all of a sudden
England will see itself as the country with the oil purely due to having the biggest land mass.
An overwhelming no vote should see off any future referendums for long enough, a narrow margin and you will be going through it all again in the near
future.
The SNP will still champion more powers for Scotland, - Devo Max which has always been the safe option anyway.
[Edited on 26/8/14 by Scuzzle]
Presumably you mean Scandinavian countries?
Beer is £9 a pint in Norway but wages are much higher so it's all relative, I don't think anybody would argue that Norway is not a
successful country.
There could be as little as 35 years of oil left with out any new finds according to Ian Wood. However there are new finds reasonably frequently but
most are not economically viable when found, but as technology moves on and cost of recovery comes down and the price goes up they then become
viable.
If we vote yes we don't know what the future holds, if we vote no we know for certain what it holds, huge budget cuts for Scotland.
Cheers
Davie
“A truly great library contains something in it to offend everyone.”
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