[Edited on 12/8/10 by richard thomas]
I have a Westfield chassis.I've been offered a ZX9R engine complete with loom etc for £300.I originally palnned to use a 1300cc Toyota Starlet turbo engine with approx 180 bhp.Uprights,brakes etc will be MX5.I'm looking for the opinions of guys with experience of BEC and CEC to help make my mind up.I've just had a run in a Hyabusa powered westfield and I was well impressed.The car will be mostly for road use with the occasional track day.
CEC
I'll get the popcorn.....but to contribute to the debate - BEC all the way
[Edited on 12/8/10 by richard thomas]
As you've said 'mostly for road', then it has to be a car-engine for me!
bec for me too
For mostly road, CEC.
For mostly track, CEC
compared to that kinda engine, CEC
I don't want this to turn into a BEC v CEC slanging match.I'd like your preference and the reasons why thats your preference.I can also get a GSXR 750 injection set up for the same money as the ZX9R carb set up.
That kind of engine ? enlighten me please.
quote:
Originally posted by Werner Van Loock
compared to that kinda engine, CEC
I like my CEC so thats what I would say if asked!
I think in all honesty a CEC would be a simpler build/conversion....what is the chassis that you have configured for?
The chassis is left blank for engine and diff fitments
quote:
Originally posted by richard thomas
I think in all honesty a CEC would be a simpler build/conversion....what is the chassis that you have configured for?
My thoughts...
I've had both.
A BEC is great fun when you're in banzai-mode and want to attack every stretch of tarmac as if you're on an F1 qually lap! It's a
complete pain in the backside if you just fancy a leisurely drive, or have to nip into town as it's noisy and you're always busy on the
gears.
A CEC offers a little more choice. Just decide on the engine... rotary screamer, torquey V6, or somewhere in the middle like a Duratec. The world is
your lobster!
If you're concerned about weight, then a Duratec and Type-9 box combo need only weigh around 60kg more than a featherweight BEC. A locost set of
throttle bodies and a half-decent exhaust and you're looking at 200bhp and a shed-load more torque than even a forced-induction bike to move that
extra bulk around!
Sure, there's not the same drama in a CEC as in a BEC, but quite often that's not a bad thing!!!
I'm building using a 2.0 Duratec with GSXR ITB's
I have had both in my car and for road use I prefer the car engine.
Steve
Sounds like a CEC is the way for me i'm getting on a bit so maybe the BEC driving characteristics wouldn't suit me.I have an Omega 3.2 v6 but i'm thinking it's weight would spoil the handling on a lightweight sportscar.
A V6 need not be heavy - I use the Mazda KL in my Fury , and it's lighter than a lot of fours (110 kg's bare)
And with 200 bhp as well as plenty of revs it sure is a hoot , as well as very civilized round town
I think I saw your Fury ar Stoneleigh.Is the KL lump alloy or cast ? What gearbox did you use ?
quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
A V6 need not be heavy - I use the Mazda KL in my Fury , and it's lighter than a lot of fours (110 kg's bare)
And with 200 bhp as well as plenty of revs it sure is a hoot , as well as very civilized round town
It's quite amusing this BEC vs CEC.
Performance wise, BEC wins.
However, once you draw a line under that, it reall is personal preference.
The whole torque thing, apart from being wrong (Gearbox people), is interesting.
Having grown up with Hondas, they offer relatively small capacity engines with high power.
Current car that i'm dismantling is the S2000.
Torque wise, it has 155lbs/ft and weighs in at 1200kg
I never had an issue with pottering around town in it and it has a lower torque/weight ratio than most BECs.
Back to that engine, the F20C, I was going to put it into a CEC.
The F20C represents the pinnacle of car production fours with 250ps (JDM) as standard, roller valve train and forged internals.
It is simply too heavy compared to a BEC and the power wouldn't offset the weight.
Still, like I said, personal preference.
What would Colin choose?
I think we know the answer 
[Edited on 13/8/10 by Rod Ends]
My BEC is mad and great fun, but if I was honest I would probally use the car more on social occassions if it was a CEC. BEC = Crazy track day/very
fast maniac road use CEC= Quick fun everyday civilised road use. Depends whether you are tourer or a aspiring racing driver.
Now where's the popcorn
[Edited on 13/8/10 by LBMEFM]
simple answer to this..
Do you want a 4 wheeled sports bike (no screen, no heater, no roof, wear a helmet, other half might get in it once then not interested 
) ? - BEC
Do you want a car (with windscreen, doors, roof, heater, radio, other half will get in it & might even drive it 
) ? CEC 
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
My thoughts...
I've had both.
A BEC is great fun when you're in banzai-mode and want to attack every stretch of tarmac as if you're on an F1 qually lap! It's a complete pain in the backside if you just fancy a leisurely drive, or have to nip into town as it's noisy and you're always busy on the gears.
A CEC offers a little more choice. Just decide on the engine... rotary screamer, torquey V6, or somewhere in the middle like a Duratec. The world is your lobster!
If you're concerned about weight, then a Duratec and Type-9 box combo need only weigh around 60kg more than a featherweight BEC. A locost set of throttle bodies and a half-decent exhaust and you're looking at 200bhp and a shed-load more torque than even a forced-induction bike to move that extra bulk around!
Sure, there's not the same drama in a CEC as in a BEC, but quite often that's not a bad thing!!!
Just to add on the road a 200bhp cec would be quicker a to b. You can't use the few extra mph corner speed on most roads. 1/4 mile times show
that's the sort of poke you need. Add to that the lower cost too
BEC all the way..... Sequential, clutchless, paddleshift gears make it easy to use on a leisurely drive out and you can make a BEC scream (or not) by
adjusting the pressure you apply to the throttle with your right foot.
Get it on a track and you'll realise you've made the right decision. Trackdays are quite addictive though....
There are quite a lot of people who have converted from CEC to BEC and most would never go back. Conversely, there is also a few people who've
gone from BEC to CEC. I suspect some will be back when they've come to their senses..............
Phil
quote:
Originally posted by franky
Just to add on the road a 200bhp cec would be quicker a to b. You can't use the few extra mph corner speed on most roads. 1/4 mile times show that's the sort of poke you need. Add to that the lower cost too
BMW 328.... 200bhp standard for £200 The extra low down torque is nice on the road IMO.
On the road slow in fast out is best according to most road racers.
[Edited on 13/8/10 by franky]
neither, I'd fit a baby elephant. loads of oompf, eco-friendly, cheap to run, reliable as they never forget - when was the last time you saw one
on the hard shoulder?
you could even train it to hose down your car.
BEC myself.
this is always a fun arguement.
if your doing road driving and chilled out get car engine.
if you wanna kill ye self on a track get the bike engine.
zx9r maybe a little small though.
good price :O)
I have a BEC but would say CEC.
This doesn't necessarily reflect my views, it's just that it's a bit quiet in the office and I'm feeling antagonistic so I'm
going to have my own argument
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Quinn
I have a BEC but would say CEC.
This doesn't necessarily reflect my views, it's just that it's a bit quiet in the office and I'm feeling antagonistic so I'm going to have my own argument
CEC for me as well and yes i have one.
My mate has a BEC,yes it is very quick but maybe its just a little manic for me.
Personal chice though
Andy
quote:
Originally posted by Wee T
That kind of engine ? enlighten me please.quote:
Originally posted by Werner Van Loock
compared to that kinda engine, CEC
[Edited on 12/8/10 by Wee T]
I don't think it matters frankly - this BEC good for the track CEC good for roads argument - having driven various cars on the track what matters
most is the sweetness of it's handling and not the ultimate speed or lap time - if the car is well mannerd in the handling department it will be
major fun on the track or on the road and ultimate speed won't matter.
Most probably the car I enjoyed the best on the track is a little Toyota 12 Valve 1300 in standard tune with a 0-100kph time approaching 14 seconds
but with exceptional handling which allowed you to recover from any indiscretion and test yourself to the limit without risking your neck whilst the
fastest car (A 3.6 litre V6 formula Atlantic) with sub 4sec 0-100 times and sequential gearbox which gripped like a leach until it didn't and
then gave no chance of recovery was a lot less fun.
So my advice is worry less about the engine choice and more about the handling and you won't be disappointed.
I have heard a BEC running, and I'm sure it's fun, but my CA18DET, pushing 200 HP is so fast it isn't funny. You simply can't put your foot to the floor without leaving your neck broken, and spinning the tyres everywhere. Seriously nuts. Just my experience so far ripping around cones on the weekends.
quote:
Originally posted by Wee T
I think I saw your Fury ar Stoneleigh.Is the KL lump alloy or cast ? What gearbox did you use ?quote:
Originally posted by clairetoo
A V6 need not be heavy - I use the Mazda KL in my Fury , and it's lighter than a lot of fours (110 kg's bare)
And with 200 bhp as well as plenty of revs it sure is a hoot , as well as very civilized round town