Puk
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| posted on 21/1/08 at 09:11 PM |
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962 replica
Good stuff here
Before you judge a guy, walk a mile in his shoes. Then when you judge him, you're a mile a way and you've nicked his shoes.
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Doug68
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| posted on 21/1/08 at 11:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Syd Bridge
quote:
Originally posted by Doug68
Whats the issue with headlamp height?
Whats the SVA requirement?
Here in Australia home of possibly the most PITA set of rules for self construction.
The rule is that for signal, dipped and parking beam they must be between 350mm and 1200mm from the ground (I assume at the bottom edge of the
lamp).
[Edited on 19/1/08 by Doug68]
Better go check your numbers again Doug, before you make a big blunder.
ADR 13/00- Dipped Beam max ht 1200-min ht 500.
That's 500mm minimum height for headlights, same as for UK Construction and Use regs.
Cheers,
Syd.
Syd, you are correct, which had me freaked out for moment but as it happens I must have known the correct number in the past as 500mm is where
I've positioned the dipped beam in my preliminary layout.
The lamp is still lower than the top of the tyre but not by much.
 
Rescued attachment Untitled-1.jpg
Doug. 1TG
Sports Car Builders WA
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Rat Boy
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| posted on 21/1/08 at 11:46 PM |
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Hi Dom, I think we spoke quite some time ago. If you want to come and have a nose around our 'toy shop' then give me a shout. It might give
you a few ideas.
[Edited on 21/1/08 by Rat Boy]
 
Rescued attachment UltimaWorkshop2.jpg
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Dom9
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 10:59 AM |
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Hi Rat boy - (Yob Tar?)
Not sure I remember speaking, but I'm sure there are lots of people I have bothered over the years... My memory is not what it used to be and I
apologise for that! Looks like you are Brands Hatch way, I may well take you up on the offer and come and have a look!
I was given this link for a chap who was building a Porsche GT1 - This is some effort:
Porsche GT1 monocoque construction
Still no luck finding any bodywork on this side of the Atlantic but I am bothering more and more people by email and private message, on various
forums, everyday! Sadly, my work email seems to be playing up at the moment so I am not sure if people are getting them! Never mind, I do feel like we
are making progress...
Really need to sit down and spreadsheet up some finances and get it all costed out then go on a research tour of some Ultima builders, Rat boy's
workshop and maybe Andy's garage.
Incidentally, I did find some bodywork for a single seater c-sports car, which is a bit like a Group C car but smaller with a central driving position
as the body sits over a single seater:
C-sports bodywork advert
It's only like £350!!! There are some bargains out there... I am pretty sure I can find something useful, for not too much money, it's
just the time it takes to do it!
Puk - I think I linked that on the first page didn't I? There are a fair few people around the world thinking along the same lines as me,
hopefully they will see this thread and maybe we can share info!?
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andygtt
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 11:39 AM |
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looking at Ratboys pics it occurs to me you could mod an Ultima body....... I have a few contacts that can sort a body out with similar lines to the
Ultima (thats were the heated screen comes from).
Do you actually want a replica or just something with that kind of lines.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Dom9
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| posted on 22/1/08 at 12:15 PM |
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Good question Andy... I guess what I want is a body with 'those type of lines'...
Seeing as there were literally hundreds of Group C cars racing around the world, I'm not sure any two were the same... In other words the
difference between having an exact replica and having something inspired by a car, is probably nothing.
Some cars were definitely better looking than others and I have this fantastic book about IMSA GTP racers, which has some awesome photos and there are
cars there that I have never seen outside o fthose pages, which I would consider much better looking than the 962, but obviously they didn't
turn out to be anywhere near as competitive.
The Ultima screen has always struck me as a bit 'fat' and 'upright' compared to the genuine Group C cars such as the 962. But
perhaps that's just the way the car looks??? Maybe if the car was a little longer and wider then the screen would actually look
'smaller' and the whole thing would 'work'.
Either way, I am coming round to the idea of having a track only car using the 962 screen... If I then wanted it on the road, I could make a mould and
have a glass one made, even if it's expensive...
The other way to do things is to design the body from scratch myself, around the 962 screen. I iwll give it a few more weeks/ months to see what turns
up on the bodywork front and if nothing has moved by summer then perhaps I will have a re-think or order a screen from Derek to start playing with.
I wonder whether Ted and the guys at Ultima would be interested in modifying an Ultima chassis to suit Derek's 962 bodywork... We could call
that Rev.1 and then I could modify the car into a bespoke 'Rev.2' over time...
Or is that me being impatient and rushing things again?
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andygtt
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 12:42 AM |
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how about the screen from the minator?
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Benonymous
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 01:17 AM |
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Cad drawings
Dom, if you have CAD drawings of the 962 I'll make a 3D model for you in SolidWorks. You can convert it to profiles or maybe be the first
person to try out my buck/foam idea  see thread
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/viewthread.php?tid=81476
I'd enjoy making the model anyway.
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crafty
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 01:20 AM |
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quote:
I wonder whether Ted and the guys at Ultima would be interested in modifying an Ultima chassis to suit Derek's 962 bodywork... We could
call that Rev.1 and then I could modify the car into a bespoke 'Rev.2' over time...
Or is that me being impatient and rushing things again?
No....That's you floating on a cloud in dreamland.... I couldnt get Ultima to powdercoat my chassis silver..... apparently silver fades quickly
and they have found that black is the only stable colour!
I also wanted a chassis with mounting points for an LS engine - they'd done a bunch for USA but stopped because the US agent was being
"too difficult". They obviously had the jigs to do it but wouldnt do it.
The chances of them making ANY changes on a chassis are less than zero.
[Edited on 23/1/08 by crafty]
Ultima GTR - 600hp Magnacharged LS2
MNR Vortx - Supercharged R1
Porsche 356 - midmounted Audi V8
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andygtt
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 07:35 AM |
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Thats my experience of Ultima as well, don't ask what they said when I asked if I could fit a BMW V8 instead of the SBC V8.... along the lines
of 'goodbye'.
But then you can replicate their rolling chasis from scratch for less so its hardly worth going to them anyhow especially as its only just over 3000lb
a deg.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 08:21 AM |
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Considering the screen, and maybe even a starting point for the body, what about that "Sport 3000" or "Prosport 3000" I think
it was called that was in the mags about 10 years ago? Was built for a spec race series.
Cheers
Fred W B
Edit - google finds this - LM 3000 prosport info
[Edited on 23/1/08 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 08:32 AM |
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LM 3000 - Very like an Ultima though?
[Edited on 23/1/08 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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crafty
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 08:35 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by andygtt
Thats my experience of Ultima as well, don't ask what they said when I asked if I could fit a BMW V8 instead of the SBC V8.... along the lines
of 'goodbye'.
I asked the same thing and got the same answer. I later found out that they'd modified a chassis for a BMW V8 for a previous customer (I have
photos)
I was considering a Canam in the beginning, and asked if they'd every done a black one - they said no..... this was also not true, they'd
done a few and this is not the sort of thing that you'd "forget"
Ultima GTR - 600hp Magnacharged LS2
MNR Vortx - Supercharged R1
Porsche 356 - midmounted Audi V8
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Dom9
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 09:11 AM |
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Looks like there has been some activity while I was away. I had a guy contact me over on the GT40 forum that I linked that Porsche GT1 thread from...
Looks like has had similar thoughts (hope you don't mind me posting this here Chris!):
Dom,
You and I apparently have the same obsession. I am in the middle of a GT40 build but as a child of the 70's who went through my automotive
awakening in the 80's, I fell under the spell of the 956/962.
As I started the build of my 40, I began to think about doing something of "my own" but never thought I'd have the courage. At this
point, I've dabbled enough fabbing up some very basic things (fiberglass and metal) that I am no longer afraid to try it. If I get into trouble
there are people around who can bail me out but moreover, it's about learning how to do it. I am enjoying the build of my car as much as I think
I will enjoy driving it.
I checked out your post/thread on Locost and it's precisely what I want to do. I have belabored the glass issue for some time now (as I sand the
body of my 40 to prep for paint- LOTS of time on my hands). I too have no good answer but I have a few thoughts.
First is what you recognized- a Gp C racer with ground effects, 4 digit spring rates, no suspension travel and 2 inches of ground clearance would not
make an overly enjoyable street or touring car (my goal for the project). Second is that most Gp C cockpits look excessively narrow (though I've
never actually sat in one). If I am going somewhere with someone else in the car, it will be someone I am comfortable being close to but I might want
a little room to breathe. Third is the glass issue. Fourth is there is no one out there who is providing the long tail LM bodywork I like so much on
the 962.
Where I am going with all this is that I have arrived at a tentative solution which I will happily share. I would like a Gp C style car but it's
likely not to be a replica of anything due to that whole cramped cockpit issue. I will likely pursue the design of my own body.
But that leads me to need a windshield, right? As much as I'd like the fighter cockpit screen of the 962/956 I don't want to live with
dreading any crack in the glass. To that end, I've been studying windshields on everything on the road. In the states (I'm in Phoenix,
Arizona by the way. I see you're in London), there's the Chrysler PT cruiser. I have come to the conclusion that this windshield offers an
appropriate (though not perfect) shape on which to potentially base a Gp C-styled car. It has a nice rake to it, a good arc to the base at the cowl
and even rolls back at the roof.
With that as a base, I was thinking of running gear. For this I am leaning toward a C5 setup. Overkill on brakes, excellent parts availability in the
states and the uprights are interchangeable front to rear (kind of neat).
This is where things grind to a halt for me as I am occupied with the build of the 40 and need that wrapped up prior to thinking about an undertaking
like a scratch build of a bespoke body and chassis.
I found your situation extremely familiar and wanted to let you know there's someone else out there with the same intentions as well and
I'd be happy and interested in sharing/swapping/copying ideas with you.
Best of luck with your project!
Chris
I think the PT Cruiser screen is a bit too flat and car-like for what I want... But there may be America-only models or other-country-only models that
could provide a screen... I need to put more thought into this!
Andy - You might be onto something with the Minotaur screen. For the benefit of those who may not be familiar with the car:
I actually think that the plan view of the cockpit area is very nice on that car but the front, sides and rear are so, so, so ugly! Maybe pick up one
of those and do a complete re-skin? Then again, I could do that to an Ultima. Either way, maybe the Ultima and Minotaur need that extra screen-width,
that I have mention as 'fat' before, to comfortably be able to seat 2 people next to each other!?
Benonymous - Thanks for the offer, I might just take you up on that as my missus only has AutoCAD at work and probably shouldn't be drawing cars
in a subsea oil and gas consultancy.
Crafty/ Andy - I had heard this about Ultima before. They don't tend to want to stray away from their tried and tested product. Whic is a shame
because I think it is probably due an update to both chassis and body. Still, it would be a bloody hard task to get the 962 body onto the Ultima
chassis as the radiators are in the middle of the Porsche but front mounted in the Ultima. Not an insurmountable problem, but as Andy says, at that
point I might as well go and have a good look round a bare Ultima chassis and just design my own, stiffer chassis.
Fred - Thr Prosport is effectively a re-engineered Ultima, or so I am led to believe. Therefore I guess it is using an identical windscreen. Good
thinking though, maybe there are race cars out there running glass instead of plastic?!
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andygtt
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 10:03 AM |
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Prosport, Ultima and Stealth are all family... mainly only in body though.
I have a good friend close by who is building a Minator who we could go see and you could have a look at the screen in person.... it is IMO a much
better sloping screen than the Ultima one.
Andy
please redefine your limits.
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Dom9
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 10:38 AM |
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Andy, it sounds like I will have to organise a visit to your place and have a look at the Minotaur while I am there... I think it's a much
better screen for my project and the Minotaur may also be able to provide side windows etc... Which may solve some problems that I haven't even
thought about yet!
I would actually like to have the radiator front mounted, with an Ultima-style front end, but more 'sharp' if that makes sense... Then a
rear end that is flatter with 'bulges' for the rear wheels and a longer tail...
If I can get some dimensions of the Minotaur screen, I might start sketching something based on a P962, or other Group C car's wheelbase and
front and rear track and see how it all fits together and whether its proportions 'look' ok...
I still maintain that it would be easier to buy a full body in GRP, but before I go ahead and commit to purchasing something, I should at least spend
some time drawing a body using the Minotaur windscreen, because If I can get it looking nice then I might well go down the mould-making path...
Wow, I really do change my mind a lot... I guess it all hangs on the size and shape of the Minotaur screen... I wonder whether anyone has a picture of
it in CAD?
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crafty
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 02:03 PM |
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I'd heard somewhere that the Ultima Screen was a rear screen from something.... does anyone know if this is the case, or is it a custom
jobbie.
Here's some prosport info...
http://www.lynxaelr1.co.uk/Products-Prosport.htm
Ultima GTR - 600hp Magnacharged LS2
MNR Vortx - Supercharged R1
Porsche 356 - midmounted Audi V8
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Dom9
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 02:18 PM |
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That's interesting Crafty because the book I have about IMSA GTP and prototype cars says that the first one to ever raced used the rear
windscreen of an early Corvette - Which sounds plausible when you think that those early Stingrays had a very curved rear windscreen...
I wonder what other cars may have a suitable rear screen?
Either way, I think this Minotaur windscreen may well solve our problems. I will try and get some measurements from one... Maybe it would be good to
find out who manufactures it and get one straight from the manufacturer as Minotaur may not sell spare ones... Or want to sell one to someone making
their own car, even if it isn't a commercial project.
I will see if I can find anything out about this Minotaur screen, such as dimensions etc.
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Fred W B
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 02:25 PM |
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quote:
I wonder what other cars may have a suitable rear screen?
That nissan ??? or whatever it is the drift boys like?
Fred W b
[Edited on 23/1/08 by Fred W B]
You can do it quickly. You can do it cheap. You can do it right. – Pick any two.
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Delinquent
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 02:37 PM |
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Surely most cars have toughened rear screens, which wouldn't meet regs? (thought it was laminated only on the front now?)
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Dom9
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 03:28 PM |
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Not sure about the laminated aspect w.r.t. rear screens... I guess it could well be a problem!
I found the cost of a Minotaur windscreen with a quick Google:
Minotaur parts price list
It's not cheap at £520!!! But may be the cheapest option if I go the home-build route. I really need detailed measurements or a CAD model so I
can accurately draw it up and get the body designed.
Those Minotaurs really are not cheap are they?! I'm not sure about the styling either, although I am sure it will appear to some guys and girls!
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tadltd
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 07:56 PM |
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Might be able to get a screen for one of these:
A friend of mine is doing replica's of the 906 (early stages) and it has to be road legal. He had been asking advice on screens and I know he
had made numerous enquiries about getting them made.
Best Regards,
Steve.
www.turnerautosport.com
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autohausdolby
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| posted on 23/1/08 at 10:51 PM |
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Cool thread - like pretty much everybody else I'm interested in building a 962. I've got to get my 914/6 GT project out of the way first
though
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Dom9
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| posted on 24/1/08 at 09:41 AM |
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Tadltd - That could well be an option, thanks for posting that!
I actually bought one of the Kit Car mags last night and there were lots of pictures of a Ferrari P4 replica in there and that also had a windscreen
that was road legal and looked very useable, although I think the Porsche one posted above is probably the best so far.
Basically, there could end up with quite a few windscreen ioptions - But I really need to see them and get a feel for how a design would work around
them.
Thanks for the comment autohausdolby, I see that you have been in touch with David Slack - Would you mind letting us know what he can supply? You can
send me a private message if you prefer?
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FUORISERIE
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| posted on 24/1/08 at 02:12 PM |
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Don,
try this link, maybe they can supply you with a similar glass :
http://www.taraglass.com/index.html
Italo
[Edited on 24/1/08 by FUORISERIE]
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