scootz
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| posted on 1/12/09 at 02:22 PM |
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The Geert Wilders Chain Email...
Anyone else received the 'Geert Wilders' email yet??? It's a speech he delivered about how he believes Europe will eventually fall
to Islamic extremists through apathy and how Sharia will become the norm. The anti-Islam brigade are obviously now using it in a chain-email designed
to provoke fear and knee-jerk reaction, rather than debate.
Just wondered what the 'common-man' (us) thought of all this... is he rabble rousing in an early Nazi-Party way... or does he have a
point??? Why am I raising this subject in the Mad House of the Locostbuilders site??? Because we are a community like any other and it's good
to talk... that's why! I'd be particularly interested to hear what any Muslims have to say on the subject (and I mean that sincerely)
Personally I think it's waaaay too early to make a hard and fast decision, but as the great Morrissey once proclaimed - how soon is now! After
all, the Polish Jews never thought that those crazy Germans soldiers were going to do THAT and they complied meekly with their odd demands. By
the time the reality hit home it was far too late for them to do anything - they were under control.
I'm using the Nazi analogy as it's probably the one that most of us can understand best, but we've also seen ethnic cleansing in
modern europe in recent years... Bosnia anyone??? Few in the international community thought they were going to do THAT to each other and they
meekly let it all continue. By the time the reality hit home it was far too late for them to do anything. Anyone see a pattern developing here???
History has taught us that change sneaks up on us and then change just 'happens'. As Edmund Burke put it, "All that is necessary
for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing". It's that simple.
I'm genuinely not trying to stir up some kind of Islam v Christianity debate as this situation (to me) has little to do with the vast majority
of Muslims or Christians... it's the damn extremists (on all sides) that are the problem. They're so desperate to have an
'identity' that they allow themselves to be wrapped up in age-old fairy-tales that were invented to control less-developed minds. As
Blaise Pascal put it, "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction". Harsh, but I'm
sure there's an element of truth in there!
Anyway, I'm getting depressed now, so onto the speech content...
"Dear friends,
Thank you very much for inviting me.
I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic.
We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe . This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a
threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe.
First I will describe the situation on the ground in Europe . Then, I will say a few things about Islam. To close I will tell you about a meeting in
Jerusalem .
The Europe you know is changing.
You have probably seen the landmarks. But in all of these cities, sometimes a few blocks away from your tourist destination, there is another world.
It is the world of the parallel society created by Muslim mass-migration.
All throughout Europe a new reality is rising: entire Muslim neighborhoods where very few indigenous people reside or are even seen. And if they are,
they might regret it. This goes for the police as well. It's the world of head scarves, where women walk around in figureless tents, with baby
strollers and a group of children. Their husbands, or slaveholders if you prefer, walk three steps ahead. With mosques on many street corners. The
shops have signs you and I cannot read. You will be hard-pressed to find any economic activity. These are Muslim ghettos controlled by religious
fanatics. These are Muslim neighborhoods, and they are mushrooming in every city across Europe . These are the building-blocks for territorial
control of increasingly larger portions of Europe , street by street, neighborhood by neighborhood, city by city.
There are now thousands of mosques throughout Europe . With larger congregations than there are in churches. And in every European city there are
plans to build super-mosques that will dwarf every church in the region. Clearly, the signal is: we rule.
Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam , Marseille and Malmo in Sweden . In many cities the majority of the under-18
population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighborhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities.
In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an
insult to Muslims.
Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by
Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear 'whore, whore'. Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the
country of origin.
In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of
Darwin . The history of the Holocaust can no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity.
In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighborhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head
scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels , because he was drinking during the Ramadan.
Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the
streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya , Israel . I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.
A total of fifty-four million Muslims now live in Europe . San Diego University recently calculated that a staggering 25 percent of the population in
Europe will be Muslim just 12 years from now. Bernhard Lewis has predicted a Muslim majority by the end of this century.
Now these are just numbers. And the numbers would not be threatening if the Muslim-immigrants had a strong desire to assimilate. But there are few
signs of that. The Pew Research Centre reported that half of French Muslims see their loyalty to Islam as greater than their loyalty to France ..
One-third of French Muslims do not object to suicide attacks. The British Centre for Social Cohesion reported that one-third of British Muslim
students are in favour of a worldwide caliphate. Muslims demand what they call 'respect'. And this is how we give them respect. We have
Muslim official state holidays.
The Christian-Democratic attorney general is willing to accept sharia in the Netherlands if there is a Muslim majority. We have cabinet members with
passports from Morocco and Turkey .
Muslim demands are supported by unlawful behaviour, ranging from petty crimes and random violence, for example against ambulance workers and bus
drivers, to small-scale riots. Paris has seen its uprising in the low-income suburbs, the banlieus. I call the perpetrators 'settlers'.
Because that is what they are. They do not come to integrate into our societies; they come to integrate our society into their Dar-al-Islam.
Therefore, they are settlers.
Much of this street violence I mentioned is directed exclusively against non-Muslims, forcing many native people to leave their neighbourhoods, their
cities, their countries. Moreover, Muslims are now a swing vote not to be ignored.
The second thing you need to know is the importance of Mohammed the prophet. His behavior is an example to all Muslims and cannot be criticized. Now,
if Mohammed had been a man of peace, let us say like Ghandi and Mother Theresa wrapped in one, there would be no problem. But Mohammed was a warlord,
a mass murderer, a pedophile, and had several marriages - at the same time. Islamic tradition tells us how he fought in battles, how he had his
enemies murdered and even had prisoners of war executed. Mohammed himself slaughtered the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. If it is good for Islam, it is
good. If it is bad for Islam, it is bad.
Let no one fool you about Islam being a religion. Sure, it has a god, and a here-after, and 72 virgins. But in its essence Islam is a political
ideology. It is a system that lays down detailed rules for society and the life of every person. Islam wants to dictate every aspect of life. Islam
means 'submission'. Islam is not compatible
with freedom and democracy, because what it strives for is sharia. If you want to compare Islam to anything, compare it to communism or
national-socialism, these are all totalitarian ideologies.
Now you know why Winston Churchill called Islam 'the most retrograde force in the world', and why he compared Mein Kampf to the Quran. The
public has wholeheartedly accepted the Palestinian narrative, and sees Israel as the aggressor. I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of
times. I support Israel . First, because it is the Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it
is a democracy, and third because Israel is our first line of defense.
This tiny country is situated on the fault line of jihad, frustrating Islam's territorial advance. Israel is facing the front lines of jihad,
like Kashmir, Kosovo, the Philippines , Southern Thailand, Darfur in Sudan , Lebanon , and Aceh in Indonesia . Israel is simply in the way. The same
way West-Berlin was during the Cold War.
The war against Israel is not a war against Israel . It is a war against the West. It is jihad. Israel is simply receiving the blows that are meant
for all of us. If there would have been no Israel , Islamic imperialism would have found other venues to release its energy and its desire for
conquest. Thanks to Israeli parents who send their children to the army and lay awake at night, parents in Europe and America can sleep well and
dream, unaware of the dangers looming.
Many in Europe argue in favour of abandoning Israel in order to address the grievances of our Muslim minorities. But if Israel were, God forbid, to go
down, it would not bring any solace to the West It would not mean our Muslim minorities would all of a sudden change their behaviour, and accept our
values. On the contrary, the end of Israel would give enormous encouragement to the forces of Islam. They would, and rightly so, see the demise of
Israel as proof that the West is weak, and doomed. The end of Israel would not mean the end of our problems with Islam, but only the beginning. It
would mean the start of the final battle for world domination. If they can get Israel, they can get everything. So-called journalists volunteer to
label any and all critics of Islamization as a 'right-wing extremists' or 'racists'. In my country, the Netherlands , 60
percent of the population now sees the mass immigration of Muslims as the number one policy mistake since World War II. And another 60 percent sees
Islam as the biggest threat. Yet there is a danger greater danger than terrorist attacks, the scenario of America as the last man standing. The lights
may go out in Europe faster than you can imagine. An Islamic Europe means a Europe without freedom and democracy, an economic wasteland, an
intellectual nightmare, and a loss of military might for America - as its allies will turn into enemies, enemies with atomic bombs. With an Islamic
Europe, it would be up to America alone to preserve the heritage of Rome , Athens and Jerusalem .
Dear friends, liberty is the most precious of gifts. My generation never had to fight for this freedom, it was offered to us on a silver platter, by
people who fought for it with their lives. All throughout Europe , American cemeteries remind us of the young boys who never made it home, and whose
memory we cherish. My generation does not own this freedom; we are merely its custodians. We can only hand over this hard won liberty to Europe
's children in the same state in which it was offered to us. We cannot strike a deal with mullahs and imams. Future generations would never
forgive us. We cannot squander our liberties. We simply do not have the right to do so.
We have to take the necessary action now to stop this Islamic stupidity from destroying the free world that we know".
It's Evolution Baby!
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cd.thomson
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| posted on 1/12/09 at 02:29 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
has little to do with the vast majority of Muslims or Christians... it's the damn extremists (on all sides) that are the problem.
Not read the email yet - will do now, but to paraphrase sam harris:
Its only in the light of moderate religion that extremism can exist.
ETA - read it now and its completely ridiculous. At least catholicism, judaism, protestantism, mormonism, buddhism do not have any political ideology
associated with them  and I'm especially glad islam isnt an Abrahamic religion
[Edited on 1/12/09 by cd.thomson]
Craig
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scootz
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| posted on 1/12/09 at 02:59 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cd.thomson
quote:
Originally posted by scootz
has little to do with the vast majority of Muslims or Christians... it's the damn extremists (on all sides) that are the problem.
Not read the email yet - will do now, but to paraphrase sam harris:
Its only in the light of moderate religion that extremism can exist.
Hadn't thought of it that way, but that's absolutely right... if we don't tell kids ghost stories and let them watch Scooby-Doo,
then they will have no concept of 'monsters' - we invent it for them!
It's Evolution Baby!
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Jasper
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| posted on 1/12/09 at 04:25 PM |
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What a load of BOLLO*KS ....
How about his point about Israel: 'I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel . First, because it is the
Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our
first line of defense.'
Israel only exists because we in Britain were bullied and guilt tripped into giving Jews a homeland after WW2. Fair enough, knowbody would denied they
had a truly poo time, but we gave them a land that was already occupied by a people who had been there a VERY long time already. Some load of old
crap written in a 2000 year old book of tales does not give ANYBODY the right to anybody elses home.
And how is Israel our first line of defence, against what? A bunch of poor Palestinians trying to get their homes back? Don't make me laugh,
they've been bullying the Palestians backed by US money and arms for years now, they deserve everything they get. If it were me I'd damn
well fight for my home to.
Don't get me wrong - I hate Islam as much as I hate ALL religions, they are all just one big cancer on our world.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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scootz
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| posted on 1/12/09 at 04:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
What a load of BOLLO*KS ....
Big hairy bollocks, or small waxed ones...
It's Evolution Baby!
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scootz
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| posted on 1/12/09 at 04:38 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
How about his point about Israel: 'I have lived in this country and visited it dozens of times. I support Israel . First, because it is the
Jewish homeland after two thousand years of exile up to and including Auschwitz, second because it is a democracy, and third because Israel is our
first line of defense.'
I 'think' he's implying that Israel is the only country ready to act quickly against the spread of extreme-Islam... not just knock
lumps out of the Palestinians.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Rod Ends
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 posted on 1/12/09 at 05:59 PM |
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Mein Kampf a hit on Dhaka streets
quote:
Booksellers touting their wares amid the heavy traffic in the Bangladeshi capital, Dhaka, have discovered an unusual best-seller.
Adolf Hitler's autobiography manifesto Mein Kampf is selling as well as Dan Brown's latest novel, The Lost Symbol.
...
Last week, Mein Kampf did unusually well because many bought the book to give it away as an Eid present.
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 4/12/09 at 10:00 PM |
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Sharia courts mean F-all to the British legal system, and no-one mentions the towns in France that are entirely populated by the English.
It's this kind of thing that makes me want to proclaim aetheism (or Jedi )
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JoelP
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| posted on 4/12/09 at 11:06 PM |
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racist paranoid nonsense.
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scootz
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 08:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Sharia courts mean F-all to the British legal system...
Not quite...
In 1996, Parliament passed the Arbitration Act setting out rules under which parties in a dispute have the right to go to an impartial tribunal to get
justice without expensive litigation. Muslims lawyers interpreted this as meaning that sharia courts could act as arbitration panels under the Act,
they began in 2007, and their decisions are legally binding.
It's Evolution Baby!
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 08:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by scootz
quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Sharia courts mean F-all to the British legal system...
Not quite...
In 1996, Parliament passed the Arbitration Act setting out rules under which parties in a dispute have the right to go to an impartial tribunal to get
justice without expensive litigation. Muslims lawyers interpreted this as meaning that sharia courts could act as arbitration panels under the Act,
they began in 2007, and their decisions are legally binding.
only if both parties agree to go before them.
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scootz
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 09:04 PM |
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But not everyone will have a choice in the matter. Particularly women seeking protection from abusive partners as they will be told to go... the
alternative is even more terrible than the joke of a judgement.
It's Evolution Baby!
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 09:24 PM |
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a good point there scootz.
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scootz
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 09:34 PM |
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Crikey... that'll be a first for me!
( <just waiting for someone to burst my bubble smiley> )
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 09:35 PM |
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From what I understand of Sharia law (which isn't much) I'm not really against it, at least the theiving scum would have a harder job with
no hands!
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JoelP
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 09:41 PM |
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im no professor of islam but it doesnt come across as a religion of peace and equality. Mind you, it does get a very skewed presentation in the media,
which is what most peoples opinion is unconsiously formed from. Then again, old testament christianity is just as bad for inequality.
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scootz
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 10:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
From what I understand of Sharia law (which isn't much) I'm not really against it...
I am...
Nujood Ali is a 10 year old from Yemen. She has already been married and divorced. It was an arranged marriage in which she alleged a husband three
times her age routinely beat and raped her. Nujood's mother told her daughter she could not help her - that she belonged to her husband now.
Nujood got her divorce, but based on the principles of Islamic Sharia law, her husband was compensated, not prosecuted. Nujood was ordered to pay him
more than $200.
It's Evolution Baby!
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Ninehigh
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 10:38 PM |
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Ouch, although I was thinking more of the "cutting off the hands of thieves" area
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scootz
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| posted on 5/12/09 at 10:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Ninehigh
Ouch, although I was thinking more of the "cutting off the hands of thieves" area
Yep... I don't really mind that either!
It's Evolution Baby!
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02GF74
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| posted on 6/12/09 at 09:11 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
im no professor of islam but it doesnt come across as a religion of peace and equality. Mind you, it does get a very skewed presentation in the media,
which is what most peoples opinion is unconsiously formed from. Then again, old testament christianity is just as bad for inequality.
there are 2 parts to any religion - the way it was originally intended and then the way it interpreted and enforced by the followers.
it is worth reading "A godless pilgrim" - Andrew Dowlin - a journey through mulsim countries.
the underlying message is that islam is no better or worse than any other religion, just that those who want to empower themselves ,will twist the
words round to their own purposes.
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Jasper
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| posted on 6/12/09 at 10:04 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by 02GF74
quote:
Originally posted by JoelP
im no professor of islam but it doesnt come across as a religion of peace and equality. Mind you, it does get a very skewed presentation in the media,
which is what most peoples opinion is unconsiously formed from. Then again, old testament christianity is just as bad for inequality.
there are 2 parts to any religion - the way it was originally intended and then the way it interpreted and enforced by the followers.
it is worth reading "A godless pilgrim" - Andrew Dowlin - a journey through mulsim countries.
the underlying message is that islam is no better or worse than any other religion, just that those who want to empower themselves ,will twist the
words round to their own purposes.
I'm not sure I agree with that, I have travelled to many Muslim countries including Morocco, Pakistan and Indonesia and I can honestly say they
are a VERY different place to be than a non-Muslim country. I would go so far as to say I wouldn't go back to a Muslim country unless I had a
very good reason to be there.
Here's an example, I've travelled extensively all over the world, and a Muslim country - Morocco - was the ONLY place I've ever been
seriously threatened. Why? Because I was a white guy walking through a market with 4 white and mostly blonde women (I was on a research trip - the
women were all respectfully dressed). He just didn't like the fact I could have female friends.
I stayed with a well educated 20 year old Muslim Pakistani friend in Lahore - he was at my Uni. We went out for a night on the town - this comprised
riding around in a minibus while his friends kept asking me about all the alcohol I drank and all the 'loose' women I had slept with -
they were totally obsessed with these two things as they had no access to them and thought that all men in the west did. It was rather sad and
immature, and you never saw young women on the street.
So to say these countries are similar or the same to non-Muslim countries is just not true, they are, on the whole, a very different place to live.
If you're not living life on the edge you're taking up too much room.
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02GF74
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| posted on 6/12/09 at 10:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jasper
, old testament christianity is just as bad
I stayed with a well educated 20 year old Muslim Pakistani friend in Lahore - he was at my Uni. We went out for a night on the town - this comprised
riding around in a minibus while his friends kept asking me about all the alcohol I drank and all the 'loose' women I had slept with -
they were totally obsessed with these two things as they had no access to them and thought that all men in the west did. It was rather sad and
immature, and you never saw young women on the street.
So to say these countries are similar or the same to non-Muslim countries is just not true, they are, on the whole, a very different place to live.
the pakistani women is actually mentioned in the book and how they are locked away from sight - the book also says that the koran does not state that
this is how is sould be but how man's interpretation of some vague phrase. Turkey is Islamic and is nowhere near as suppressive of women.
(note I am quoting stuff from a book Iread probalby 10 yrs ago so my memory may be jaded).
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Rod Ends
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 posted on 6/12/09 at 04:24 PM |
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quote:
Since 1994, a Pakistani activist who founded the Progressive Women’s Association
“has documented 7,800 cases of women who were deliberately burned,
scalded or subjected to acid attacks, just in the Islamabad area.
In only 2 percent of those cases was anyone convicted.”
Terrorism that's personal WARNING - GRAPHIC CONTENT
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