craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 10:25 AM |
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Approximate cost of double glazing & roofline?
Hi,
Thinking about replacing our wooden double glazing and roofline (12 years old now) with new UPVC stuff. We were going to wait until the Spring next
year but was thinking it might be better to get the benefit of the new windows over the winter. So we have a company coming round tonight to do a
quote and I wanted to try to get an idea of what to expect very roughly. I know it will depend a lot on the exact spec of the windows and how many
openings they have etc. In general we are looking for very simple, plain windows with minimal framing. We ideally want upstairs bedroom windows to
both open and tilt with the smaller windows just having top openings. The lounge window would only be top openers.
So, 10 windows in all as follows (size very roughly in inches):
Living room 90x63 (single piece lower pane with two top openers spanning half width each)
WC 19x34 (top opener only)
Bedroom 1 69x46
Bed 5 / Study 47x46
Bedroom 3 (Dormer) 47x40
En suite 25x40 (top opener only)
Kitchen 45x40
Bedroom 2 47x46
Bedroom 4 47x46
Bathroom 25x40 (top opener only)
Looking for UPVC interior ledges and sides on all windows.
Not planning to replace any doors as they are all in good shape and UPVC already.
House is brick and block construction with quite deep interior ledges (approx 12 inches)
Roofline is the usual facias and soffits with the dormer window having tongue and groove cladding all round.
I've no idea if it is possible to give a rough estimate based on this but anything is better than nothing. Also, if you have any advice then
please feel free. Not planning to sign anything tonight regardless of any high pressure sales. In fact high pressure = no chance of getting a sale...
The company is called Central Scotland Joinery so any comments on them would be appreciated too.
Many thanks,
Craig.
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designer
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 10:48 AM |
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Always get three quotes, efforts like this are a waste of time. the job must be seen to foresee any problems.
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 12:21 PM |
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Hi,
You may very well be right but I'm sure I can learn something, even if it is just the likely cost of the windows themselves or some minimum cost
based on a problem-free installation or something.
Let me put it another way. My guess is something like £2k for the roofline and £5k (+/- £500) for the windows (fitted). Is that crazy-optimistic or
crazy-pessimistic or somewhere in between? My neighbour one one side paid £1700 for the roofline a few years ago and another neighbour paid £2k for
their roofline last year. These houses are identical to mine.
Obviously I'll get at least 2 quotes and most likely 3 as you suggest.
Thanks,
Craig.
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RickRick
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 12:43 PM |
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we just had 2 very large bay windows, 8ft tall, 14ft wide (think turret), with 5 small windows at the top encapsulated, then another 6 windows 8k
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 02:39 PM |
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Thanks RickRick, that's useful to know albeit a bit different to my own installation.
I just found this website: http://comparewindowsanddoors.com
It has come up with a figure of £4460 for my requirements, fully fitted which doesn't seem bad but after doing some other research I hope to get
it down to the mid £3000's so that it comes to around £5k with the roofline done as well. I've seen a few people saying that £300 - £350
is a reasonable average per window. Of course that depends on the spec.
I've also just had a call from the Sales Manager of the company who is coming round tonight and he is well warned that high pressure sales is a
no-no as is taking much longer than the estimated 1 hour for the visit. To be fair to him, he seemed like a very nice bloke and assured me that they
don't indulge in such practices. I hope not...
C.
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snapper
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 02:44 PM |
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How I would do it based on a large extention I got done a few years back
Chippy to do the eaves and sofets on day rate
Price windows at Wicks work out material costs get builder on day rates
What I did for the house before the extention was get 3 firm quotes, 2 salesmen were ejected from the premises befor I got 3 further quotes for taking
the piss
I said I want honest quotes the best you can do, don't phone your office for a special rate just give me your best shot and ill compare, I
won't sign today
Ended up with a salesman I knew who said you have been quoted this from the others, this is my quote and this is my commission, I said squeeze your
commision and ill have it.
Quotes ranged from 3k to 10k
The difficult to price bits are any making good, I had a couple of walls built up and a bit of pebbledash made good
I eat to survive
I drink to forget
I breath to pi55 my ex wife off (and now my ex partner)
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 05:17 PM |
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I think scottish building regs for windows differ little from thge rest of the UK, but probably doesn't make a lot of difference.
Def worth getting several quotes, for our house we had 5 in a week, one every day. 3 were OK, 2 were daft. We picked on what we felt was the better
company for a few quid more than the cheapest.
These days I would do my own, about £150 for a 60x36 one opener window, probably do 5 in a day, maybe more? so 2 days, then an extra day trimming up.
Allow £2- 2 1/2k for windows and 3-4 man days
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 06:12 PM |
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Thanks guys, I'll let you know how we get on. They should be here at 8pm.
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Peteff
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 09:39 PM |
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We had 4 windows and a front door fitted a couple of years ago for £2,250 on the front of the house. Only reason I had them done was we wanted it done
quick. I fitted 2 more on the back this year and they cost me £260 for the pair to get them made and I put them in myself. I have a couple more to do
but the present frames are not bad so no urgency.
yours, Pete
I went into the RSPCA office the other day. It was so small you could hardly swing a cat in there.
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craig1410
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| posted on 4/10/12 at 11:15 PM |
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Hi, quick update.
Long story cut short, got quote for £8580 all inc for 10 windows plus front door which was a last minute addition by my wife. She has a thing about
having a nice shiny front door... 
Having seen the window itself, this is a seriously well engineered bit of kit. It's made by Veka, a German company. The unit is a Veka VS70 and
it is a 70mm deep fully sculptured design with a 28mm argon filled DG module. It has 9 point locking and is both "Secure by Design"
certified and "A" rated for energy. In fact it has a heat loss figure of 1.4 where you only need 3.2 to get an A rating. It has a box
section steel frame covered in uPVC and all hardware (hinges, handles, locks etc.) screw into the steel frame so nothing comes loose after a few
months. They also replace the interior window sills and sides with mahogany with picture frame facings.
The door is like something from a bank vault, except prettier...
So, basically it comes down to whether I want quality or a lower price. I have already knocked the price down from £14000 to £9500 and then to £8580
on the basis I sign up in time to complete before the end of (a slow) October. The salesman was actually very good and although he was very keen for a
sale tonight, he respected my insistence that I wanted to sleep on it before deciding. In my own mind I have pretty much already decided to go for it
but am prepared to take on board any comments from you guys first. I know I have been seduced by the engineering quality of these windows so may well
be 'under the influence' ... 
The other thing to mention is that they do a payment plan where you can pay for the windows over 5 years or 10 years. However, you can also overpay as
much as you like with no redemption penalty using credit or debit cards and there are no card fees either. I intend to pay over 3-6 months but at
least doing it this way I an avoid card payment fees which would normally be 3%. I'll probably pay a £100 deposit just to hook them into credit
card protection but they have a Fairtrades membership and insurance backed warranty so should be safe enough. Better still, we have a friend who used
this company for their window installation and they were delighted with the result.
Anyone care to snap me out of this trance before I pull the trigger? Oh, before anyone suggests it, I don't want to fit my own windows.
I'm running my own business now and working long hours and if I have any spare time, which I don't, then I would be better off working
some more and paying someone to fit my windows for me. If it was plumbing then it would be different of course as I'd be better off taking a
holiday from my software consultancy job and soldering my pipes myself... Go figure! 
Thanks guys,
Craig.
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owelly
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| posted on 5/10/12 at 12:43 AM |
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That salesman has done a very good job!
It may well be a good deal but did you want those super-safe windows before he turned-up? He's probably told you he'll beat any like for
like quote knowing fine well that no-one else sells that particular brand or specification to give an accurate comparison. You still need another two
quotes and I'd recommend one of those quotes is from a reputable, recommended builder. I had quotes from various double glazing companies
including those advertised on TV and once you wipe away the BS and sales patter, you end up with a house full of windows and a price. Finance is a
separate ball game altogther so treat it as such! See how much a home improvement loan is, or drawing down a bit of extra cash out of your mortgage
with a view to make it up in the next month or two. It would depend on your mortgage/finances.
I had quotes from £3500 up to £16,000! Obviously the £16k was the top line but with various BOGOF offers or ,'buy the front and the back windows
are free', the prices dropped to about £8k! A local builder had a proper look at the property, noted a few problems with damp and extra joinery
work that would need to be done before the windows were fitted and went away with the measurements. He popped a quote through the letter box the
following evening. £1700. The windows he fitted were better than the stuff the other DG salesman had shown me and he also did some other remedial
works whilst he was on the job including arranging a decorator to make good damaged decor, all for the same quoted price.
So to recap..... Did the salesman sell you something you didn't need before he called!!
Good luck.
http://www.ppcmag.co.uk
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cliftyhanger
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| posted on 5/10/12 at 06:37 AM |
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NEVER be fooled by trade associations. They are there for the benefit of the trade rather than the customer.
Likewise any company who offers a high price and then will drop it substantially is rather flighty.
Re windo quality, there are very few actual profile manufacturers, they will all be similar in terms of what they offer. You REALLY need to get a few
more quotes so you can get a perspective. Ask locally for recommendations.
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afj
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| posted on 5/10/12 at 07:34 AM |
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Also I wouldn't let the high security locking doors and windows sway your decision. We board up windows and doors for the police, the police
usually break down your door to gain access so if your a drug dealer get a good door lol. But every burglary we go to the criminals just smash your
back windows or patio door and climb in, that when you need steel shutters that electrically close when you lock your doors
eerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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craig1410
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| posted on 5/10/12 at 10:48 AM |
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Thanks guys, will take that on board.
Veka are a profile manufacturer, the worlds largest if you believe their website. Lots of good reviews about their product quality too.
Owelly, you're right the salesman did do a good job but not in the usual sense. He did a good job by bringing in a quality product which did the
talking for him. He didn't make any guarantees about price matching but I'm sure there will only be a few suppliers of this window in
Scotland so it amounts to the same thing. More important to us is the word of mouth recommendation from my wife's best friend and the fact we
got 10 windows and a door for £8580 compared to their 4 windows and a door for £6500. My wife has seen their windows and door personally and we have
also seen our neighbours windows which have white plastic interior sills which get scratched and discolour. Those windows are generally of pretty low
quality having been picked from a trade catalogue from a generic window supplier. They are certainly nowhere near the same quality as the Veka
units.
In terms of quotes, I have already effectively got five. I know what my two nearest neighbours paid to replace the windows on their identical houses
in the last couple of years, and I got an online quote from two companies yesterday in addition to the quote I got last night. Taking the new front
door out of the equation to compare like with like for the windows the range goes from £4500 to £7000 with the online quote being cheapest (surprise
surprise) and the one from last night being highest. My neighbour paid about £6k a couple of years ago and to be honest I think I'm getting a
better balance of quality and price than they got.
The question about whether I *wanted* these higher quality windows is a good question but I am confident that the answer is probably yes because I
have a long history of not buying cheap stuff and I prefer to go for good value premium goods but not overinflated brand names. This applies to food,
clothing, electricals, cars etc. My wife is the same in this regard.
Fairtrades seems to be a worthwhile addition but the key thing about CSJ is that they have been around for over 20 years under the same name and
company, not some Phoenix-like reborn name after coming to a sticky end like some. They also have an insurance backed guarantee where they give a lump
sum up front to the insurance company who will pay out if CSJ were to go bankrupt and any warranty work was required. The warranty is also
transferable to any new house owner which is something which will be important in 5 years or so when we intend to move to another house.
High security is important to me, not because it stops people breaking in but more because it makes it very difficult to break in silently which is my
worst fear. Many DG windows can have the glass removed from the outside by removing the rubber gasket and lifting the glass out. That isn't
possible with these.
Finance isn't really a separate thing as I have to pay for the windows somehow. I'm pretty savvy on finances so no need to worry there.
Remortgage is out because my current deal is a BoE base rate + 1% tracker running at 1.49% just now. Jammy, I know! I don't want a bank loan
because I intend to pay within 6 months. I was going to pay by credit card then do a balance transfer to a 0% deal but CSJ charge 3% for CC
transactions. However, if I take the finance package then I can then pay by CC or DC with zero fees. I'm an IT contractor and my current
contract ends in March so basically I'm going to go for the finance on a 10 year term and just pay the minimum for 2 or 3 months until I know if
my contract is extended or if I find a new one. If I do then I'll just overpay it aggressively over 4 months or so as there is no penalty for
early redemption and interest is calculated daily so any overpayments reduce the term as you would expect. This company doesn't require any
money up front and the first payment is due 1 month after the job is complete and signed off.
Lastly, a good friend of mine is a retired joiner by trade but also used to be a salesman for Miro double glazing. I've been keeping him up to
date on events and his advice is to bite the salesman's hand off as this is a really good deal. A good, reputable company with a top quality
product which will increase the value of my house, reduce maintenance, save energy and generally make the house a nicer place to live.
Sorry to ramble on but lots of good points to cover.
Thanks again to all, I'll let you know how I get on once I've made my final decision. Going to mull it over a bit longer.
Cheers,
Craig.
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