geeto
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 posted on 23/9/15 at 11:34 AM |
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BEC - road/track day use reliability
Hi,
This is my first post on this forum so please bear with me!
After doing numerous searches about the driveability of a BEC I am happy that I can live with that, but my primary concern is the overall reliability.
I am finding mixed reviews about the reliability of a BEC car and I'm not 100% whether it is actual genuine experience rather than what somebody
has previously said/opinion.
My plan for the kit car will be the odd trip to work / weekend drives and hopefully a few trackdays (I will be driving there, going around the track
and returning home in the car ideally).
I am looking to buy one already on the road as I currently don't have the time to build another sadly, my budget is approximately upto £9000 but
that would have to be the right car.
Is there anybody here with a similar usage with a BEC who can share their experiences?
Cheers,
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Hakuraa
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 12:57 PM |
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Hi,
Maybe not the best person to respond to this as I have only owned my Mac#1 ZX10 for 8 months.
However it has done 4 track days, but transported there and back, it has taken me to work and back twice, but again I live in the sticks and my
commute does not include traffic, I would guess the clutch is the weakest part of a BEC for peak travel times, other than that it has been driven
around the local rural road for fun, and so far has been completely reliable. Next week it is due to complete two days at the DN13 event at the
Nordschleife which is the main reason it was bought. Not having a sensible reverse option always gives me thought for where I would drive it, how I
can park during a track day, and to use on the road seems soooo slow and unexciting, unless I put my license in serious jeopardy!. All of these
thoughts cease to matter once it is used to its full potential as the grin factor is addictive.
Andy.
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adithorp
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 01:07 PM |
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Wow thats a big can of worms you've opened there.
Truth is it depends on how well it's built/prepered and how you treat it. Properly sorted, a BEC (contary to much opinion) is reliable; However
take a non-drysumped BUSA or Blackbird on track and thrash it and you could be walking home. Personally I prefer to trailer to track days as otherwise
it's always in the back of my mind that I need to get home, but I'd feel the same with a CEC Any problem is more likely to be my fault
than the cars (and involve barriers).
I use mine for evening/weekend runs, weekends at shows, trackdays and an annual 3000mile Euro tour. Never think twice about reliability. On the 6 Euro
trips I've done, there's been between 2-5 BECs on each; a total of 20 BEC trips. In all those we've had 2 specific bike engine
issues... One broken gearbox and one headgasket failure... and that was an engine that had just been rebuilt and was excepted as faulty repair by the
supplier.
30,000 miles since mine was registered and I've had 2 engine related issues (both on track) that meant I wouldn't have got home (plus to
barrier interfaces); A blown head gasket (poor mapping) and a broken starter last weekend... though technically it could have been bump started and
driven if I'd had to. Never failed to get me home when out on the road.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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james h
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 01:20 PM |
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From my experience, it is less often the bike engine/gearboxes that go, its more likely to be ancillaries that have been installed in a manner which
would lead to failure.
I've had a couple of issues that were my fault - pulled through a clutch cable, coil connectors coming loose and coils falling on the exhaust
manifold (although the brackets I had were built by someone else, and faulty design led to that failure).
All of the above have been fixed at the roadside or left the car still limp-homeable.
The only time when the BEC package has let me down is when I got clutch slip from about 6krpm upwards. This was a combination of a poorly adjusted
clutch cable and the increased load of the car/bike package. Still easily sorted though! Another diaphragm spring for £20 sorted me out.
I don't have any experience of track days though.
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BenB
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 01:49 PM |
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Only issue I've had with my ST1100 BEC was actually when I was heading to a track day- the bolt on the rose joint on the bottom of the gearstick
actuating mechanism fell out leaving me in 3rd gear permanently. Good thing my car has low down torque and the traffic lights / roundabouts were kind
and I got to my brothers where a new nut/bolt had me quickly en route to the track day. I can't decide whether the transmission tunnel heat
effected the nylock (unlikely I reckon) or I just hadn't done it up properly / re-used a nylock (more likely!!!).
The ST1100 is a heavyish bike so the clutch is just about right for a BEC....
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DRM Black7
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 02:19 PM |
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Mines been really reliable, only issues I've had were due to Fisher Sports cars not fitting an seal on the oil pick up, that cost me an
Engine.
And a capacitor came of the circuit board on the Aftermarket Imobilzer so when I booted it the broken capacitor would slide along the circuit board
short it out and cut the Ignition, that took some head scratching to find that out.
Like people have said a lot of it is down to the Installation
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bi22le
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 02:55 PM |
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Agree with all of the above.
I always see BECs on track days. They seem to always last, unlike highly strung high power tin tops.
I would also recommend towing the car to a track day. I used to drive the car to and from as well as on the track. It limited me to tools i could
take, fuel i could take, only doing local circuits, comfort each way and the niggle you need it to get home.
Saying that, my maye i normally do track days with always drives his astra coupe with no bother.
I would say that if your going to track to drive within 80% of the cars ability then try to tow it.
Also be prepared. I could gaurentee you the most random thing will break on a track day.having limited spares and no alturnative to get to a local
supplier means your day could get cut short because of a simple niggle.
The worst thing that has happened to me on a track day is a broken half shaft. I stripped it down, drove to a local welder, got it fixed and fitted
and still had 3 hours fun in the afternoon!!
[Edited on 23/9/15 by bi22le]
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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MegaBladeMatt
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 04:11 PM |
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I have owned a Zetec engined Westfield and now have a MegaBlade, I have similar use as you but don't drive to work. I use it for weekends and
track days.
I bought the Zetec as it had comfy seats, windscreen and full weather gear and I though that would be easier to live with and more reliable, but it
just didn't excite me the way I thought a light weight kit car would.
I soon realised I should have gone for what I originallly wanted, being a BEC.
My old Zetec had some build quality issues, and as stated previosuly a well thought out and put together Kit car can be reliable whether CEC or
BEC.
Research the engine you are looking at and their common faults, my only reliability issues was the common charging issues on the Fireblade engine
which was easily enough sorted with a new regulator/rectifier fitted in a well thought out way.
I live on the edge of London, so traffic can be heavy but I done 10 miles in a M25 tailback in the summer and although I was uncomfortably hot the car
was fine.
Matt
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kj
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 04:20 PM |
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Converted from x flow to zx9, gear change better, performance and sound track out of this world. If the clutch is set up correctly and up graded
springs not a problem
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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kj
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 06:32 PM |
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Paddle shift with rods best option
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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Jon Ison
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| posted on 23/9/15 at 08:55 PM |
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My car hit the road in 2000, as been a BEC since 2001, it's on its 2nd bike engine the first a fireblade was removed 6 years ago due to gearbox
failure after years of track abuse, now as a Busa installed gets tracked on a regular basis and still going strong as anyone who knows me will confirm
on a typical track day I spend far more time on track than off, it as put hours and hours in at full chat.
Any reliability issues engine wise on a BEC is usually down to installation problems or poor maintence.
I do trailer to track days but have never needed it for a engine problem, I was at Cadwell Monday the car ran faultlessly all day, not bad for a 15
year old locost.
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adithorp
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| posted on 24/9/15 at 07:59 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Hakuraa
...my commute does not include traffic, I would guess the clutch is the weakest part of a BEC for peak travel times...
The bike clutch shouldn't suffer in traffic. It's a wet-clutch so less prone to overheating. The problem in traffic is the lack of inertia
in the engine with no flywheel; If the pedal leaverage hasn't been set up well, giving a short pedal then it is easy to stall at low revs. Get
it right with a nice light, long pedal and although not as forgiving as a car engine, you should be OK. I've done the M25 (from M40-Gatwick) in
rush hour on several occasions, Nice grid-lock this summer was fun, but if you want a real test of a clutch you need to go to an Italian city, where
they don't take prisoners... I've been through Genoa, Milan and Turin without issues.
"A witty saying proves nothing" Voltaire
http://jpsc.org.uk/forum/
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geeto
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| posted on 24/9/15 at 02:34 PM |
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Thanks for all your replies, its nice to hear that these cars can be reliable if maintained/installed correctly!
I'm currently looking into two kit cars, both on ebay at the moment:
the first is a tiger avon with a CBR1000RR engine, dry sumped and tuned by AB performance. road legal ready to drive away - £7995
The second is a zx12r fisher fury, dry sumped and tuned (not sure where though) not road legal but was previously so will require lights/handbrake etc
& MOT - £7,500
Both are very nice looking, fisher fury is more of a track car so I don't expect the bodywork to be as fancy as the avon. I think a dry sump is
well over specced for what I will need but its better to be over engineered than not. although a dry sump system does have more failure points if not
maintained correctly...
If you were to choose between the two above, which one would you choose and why?
My current thinking on the tiger:
Pro's
- Looks really nice
- high engine specification/seems to have all the right bits
- Potential to drive it away on the same day / has been used on the road recently (no major initial tinkering)
Con's
- Avon chassis was the basic/locost version from tiger
- 15" alloy wheels seem a bit large for this type of car
- approximately 4 hours away from my current location
My current thinking on the fisher:
Pro's
- Trackday tested/maintained by a specialist
- Larger engine capacity (could help with slightly higher torque figures)
- Love the fisher fury shape (Maybe biased as that is the same model kit car I built previously)
Con's
- Bodywork is expected to be rough/well used
- requires additional tinkering to get it road worthy
- Trackday used (Hard miles)
Thanks again for the above replies, they give me a bit more confidence in these ballistic cars!
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MegaBladeMatt
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| posted on 24/9/15 at 03:07 PM |
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If both are mechanically sound, then they should be fairly similar in terms of power.
The Tiger looks like a very well sorted car though, very nice!
I suppose it's down to with which shape suits your personal preference.
I would go for the Tiger as you can drive it away and don't have anything to do before you can start enjoying it!
I might be biased though as I'd love to upgrade my Megablade to a CBR1000.
Dont be put off by travelling to get the right car, BECs are not that common so travelling for the right one is all part of the fun 
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Spud1985
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| posted on 25/9/15 at 09:42 PM |
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Had my BEC for 3years. Left me stranded twice. Once because of a faulty regulator / rectifier that blew the battery (something i could have avoided
happening if i paid closer attention to the volt meter gauge and the 2nd was last week because of the clutch - clutch issues have been an ongoing item
which i hopefully will sort out in the next couple of weeks when i change all the components from the basket through to the casing gasket.
Had some other faults but they have been down to inferior installation or sub-standard parts and have since been upgraded to better parts and fitment.
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daniel mason
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| posted on 25/9/15 at 09:49 PM |
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Wasn't aware of a dry sump system on the 1000rr blades. Shows what I know!
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Irony
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| posted on 26/9/15 at 11:36 AM |
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Mate, this is the Internet. You will see hundreds of posts and comments about how BECS are unreliable. It's the nature of human beings, we
are complainers.
The forum would be a dull place if everyone posted 'my BEC was totally reliable today'.
There are hundreds of people who adored they BEC. They must be good.
Noisy, high pitched buzzy things anyway!
[Edited on 26/9/15 by Irony]
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AdC
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| posted on 26/9/15 at 12:28 PM |
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Had my 919 Caterham nearly five years, using it exactly as you suggest, OP - Sunday blasts, track days, once in a while a trip to work. It's let
me down once - I left the lights on and that small bike battery has no staying power.
I can't speak about other engines, but I've just switched from a Dry Sump to a Wet Sump on the 919RRW engine. Andy Bates suggests it
isn't needed as long as a baffled sump is used, and I've saved nearly 5kgs as a result. Theoretically it should be peppier too, not having
a scavenge pump running and sapping power.
I think becs definitely likes to be 'on it' more than a cec, so maybe not what you'd take the Misses to the pub in. In fact I
don't like to take anyone in it as it just adds weight.
[Edited on 26/9/15 by AdC]
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bi22le
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| posted on 26/9/15 at 01:10 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by AdC
Had my 919 Caterham nearly five years, using it exactly as you suggest, OP - Sunday blasts, track days, once in a while a trip to work. It's let
me down once - I left the lights on and that small bike battery has no staying power.
I can't speak about other engines, but I've just switched from a Dry Sump to a Wet Sump on the 919RRW engine. Andy Bates suggests it
isn't needed as long as a baffled sump is used, and I've saved nearly 5kgs as a result. Theoretically it should be peppier too, not having
a scavenge pump running and sapping power.
I think becs definitely likes to be 'on it' more than a cec, so maybe not what you'd take the Misses to the pub in. In fact I
don't like to take anyone in it as it just adds weight.
[Edited on 26/9/15 by AdC]
The below is an important point. The sharpness of a BEC is lost when you have a passenger.
Track days ARE the best thing since sliced bread, until I get a supercharger that is!
Please read my ring story:
http://www.locostbuilders.co.uk/forum/13/viewthread.php?tid=139152&page=1
Me doing a sub 56sec lap around Brands Indy. I need a geo set up! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHksfvIGB3I
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kj
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| posted on 26/9/15 at 05:54 PM |
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If your buying a kitcar, you should know you will always be modifying it , bike engines are like a super car on speed, frantic and a rush
Think about it, think about it again and then do it.
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Whitti_uk
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| posted on 10/11/15 at 06:00 PM |
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I hope to be going the BEC route for weekend blasts, track days and sprints... can't wait to find something!
Are they to be completely avoided when salt has been present? Or can they be rinsed off easy enough?
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