Made some changes to the rear flank based on comments received. I am going to print with this shape barring any major issues. Comments?




more renders at my website.

Pile of crap...












(Steve knows I'm joking..)

Yep, nice...like it a lot..

Now make it.....

Thanks Alan..... yes, yes, building is next.

But funding first...

I have arranged to have the sections printed on a large scale plotter. Much more accurate than my original projection plan.

Graber

It'll work!

I think the shape is outstanding. There are a few radiuses, chamfers, and bulges that I think are extraneous, but then again, I'm practically Amish in my tastes

Pete

Very good! I get an impression of power and style.
Have a little t rubble to understand the size, do you have a render with a driver seated?
Good luck with the funding.

It looks long and narrow like a single seater with the driver in the middle to me. Other than that, it reminds me of something but I can't think what.

[Edited on 16/5/04 by Peteff]

You are missing something, where is the forearm-light support bracket?

I never said anything about the last pics as they were not exactly my taste and did not want to say anthing negative, But this is beautifly done. You can see how form has followed fucntion. Only comment I could say is that the side ducting seams to end rather short or the angle does not seem right. I am guessing that it has to end roughly there so the suspension is not intefered with. Over all a very nice design that I would be proud to drive myself (very)
Dale

Overall impression is good, but I don't like the mix of radii and sharp angles. Either soften the sharp angles in the side vents or put a slight crease along the radius curves. The radius between side and top being most conspicuous.

The rendering gives the impression that the front wings(fenders) are almost pointed toward the outer edge. Not something that I like, but that is probably just personal preference!

As I mentioned previously, the front valence/bumper section looks like it has been borrowed from another car. Can't you do something with the flat areas on it? Blend the contours down into the valence please?

Other than all the criticisms it looks great!!!

Terry

Looks pretty nice to me, I rather like hard edged styling. I did have one little thought though, and it may just be a lack of rendering, but does the front of the side duct have any opening into the front wheel well? The reason for asking is that the reason it is done on racing and super-cars is to vent the high pressure regions from the radiator and the turbulence behind the spinning wheel along the side of the vehicle, rather then over the top, or worse, the bottom. If not it may be able to keep the look with body colored perforated sheet. But thats just a thought. Hope it all comes together for ya, been cool to see. Cheers!

Well done Mr G, looks wonderful to me, nowt needs changing IMHO. Ive not been keeping up with it recently, do you have any plans about the headlights? and are the tail lights in the pictures as they will be? they look nice.

all good sausage!

Good, thanks guys. I appreciate the votes. I will just say that the 3D model does have some faults in it that aren't worth my time fixing but will be addressed in the physical buck.

Terry, I think that the fenders will look somewhat like your avatars' (Porsche), but a bit flatter across the tops. I am going to design the front bumper in-situ too hard to design in 3D but I agree with your comments. My wife thinks that the front fender looks like a mattress. PeteF, the cockpit opening is 120cm (48" wide, the body of the car is 162cm wide. The body therefore extends about 18cm wider than the cockpit opening on each side. It's pretty low and wide. JoelP, the taillights are 2004 Jeep Liberty turned sideways. You can see more about these at my website diary (including my soon to be famous 'forearm tailight brackets' that Derf so kindly mentioned. ). Headlights will be similar to Alan B's Hella units with moulded perspex covers.

I was at my office this pm dumping a load of trash into the industrial dumpster bin (illegal but WTF) and I happened upon 20 pieces of 48"x 24" x3/8" (10mm+/-) mdf. Just right for the basis of my buck!

quote:

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Originally posted by sgraber
......(illegal but WTF).......

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btw- I am currently getting drunk as a skunk... Gotta love those russians, inventing vodka/ Gonna hurt tomorrow, but WTF right?

Graber

Wow Alan, you are really making some nice progress there! I love it!

I made one last animation, just adding a human (6"0' [2m]) figure and some minor body tweaks to reassure myself that I am actually ready to build. Barring any knockout revelations that's it. It's off to print

BTW - My humanoid 3D model was naked, (and happens to look a little Iraqi! ) so I placed a bag over his wanker area... hehehe

http://www.newtier.com/graber/mid-engine/videos/balayellow.avi

It's 1.6Megs 640x480 WM9 so unless you are on broadband, you should download before viewing.

Graber

[Edited on 5/19/04 by sgraber]

Just had a look at the video, and the car looks terrific! Forget what I said about excess ornamentation, if you haven't already.

Had a thought concerning the air intake: how about molded horizontal slots (4-5 of them) with rounded ends? I think they would look good following the side angles you already have.

And you may be onto something with those inflatable shorts on the android. Ever considered a career in fashion design?

Pete

quote:

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Originally posted by pbura
Just had a look at the video, and the car looks terrific! Forget what I said about excess ornamentation, if you haven't already.

Had a thought concerning the air intake: how about molded horizontal slots (4-5 of them) with rounded ends? I think they would look good following the side angles you already have.

And you may be onto something with those inflatable shorts on the android. Ever considered a career in fashion design?

Pete

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quote:

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Originally posted by sgraberAre you referring to the front front intake, or the side intakes?

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Steve, nice animation...shows off the shape well...

I agree I'd go for it at that.....do any minor tweaking as you go.......looks good to me...

Like Pete, it reminds me of something but I'm struggling to put my finger on it.

Square on, the back looks a bit current MR2

, but the side-profile wedge shape (not wedge in the perjoritive) familiarity is bugging me now

Cheers,

Neil

Front looks like a Ferrari 360 and the rear like one of the lambos ( not a bad thing)

[Edited on 23/5/04 by gjn200]

Hey Steve, what's the reason for not posting this thread in the Mid engine section?

We need as much help as pos to encourage these heathens that there is an alternative to front engine rear drive!

Ducks for cover!

Terry

Ahh yes... I like to spread the seed of mid-engine-ness far and wide. (hmmm) ... So I thought I would expose myself to a different crowd.

Seriously though, The more opinions I got before I set the design in stone, the better. I like the mid-engine forum, but honestly, it gets ignored by a lot of the chaps.

I made some great progress on the bodywork this weekend and I will resume posts in the mid-engine section. It's pretty dead over there right now.

Graber

Hello,

Great website, I spent hours looking at it the other day, my boss wouldnt be impressed...

Your project is very interesting, what process do you have in mind for creating the bodywork ? I have bought numerous books recently covering composite and glass work and it looks incredibly dauting on a project the size of a car. How many pieces will the body be in ? Im not sure how far down the line you are, are you still at the stage where you are trying to get it to look right ?

Also, what software did you use to create the 3D model, is/was it easy to use or is this a tool you use daily for work or something ?

Sorry for all the questions, but you are one heck of an inspiration and your diary is very useful, one of the only ones that covers EVERY singke detail considered from the very start, keep it up ! Im dying to see how the bodywork stage goes, wish you were a year ahead of where you are now so I could read on ! its like waiting for a new book to come out or something...

Thanks

James

Thanks James, that's very kind.

The body was designed in 3DS Max. It is not something I use everyday. It is indeed very difficult to use (IMHO). Problem 1 is visualization of 3d objects in 2d space. You have a perspective view, but it's just not the same as seeing it in the flesh. Circles, squares, and other straight geometric objects are simple, it's when you move into polymorphic shapes that it gets hard.

I am creating the body plug like the hull of a boat, except upside down. Outlines of the body are cut out of wood at predetermined distances and the gaps are to be filled with foam and hot-wire carved to shape. Then the entire structure is coated with drywall plaster, shaped again (and again) and filled with hi-fill Kilz primer. (insert much work and pain here) (Please see Alan Bertwistles website for a complete and very nice description of the filling, priming process.) Once the hull is finished, it is coated multiple times with carnuba wax and release agent and a mold is made of the body. (insert much work and pain here).

That's it!

I'm getting ready to print the outlines taken from my 3D model this week sometime. So this weekend may see more progress...

Graber

This is exactly the process described in one of the books I bought from Amazon 'Fiberglass and Composite Materials' by Forbes D. Aird and seems to be the most common/only way people use.

The author created a plug with pre-cut cross-section shaped pieces of wood and then filled the gaps with styro-foam and expanding foam. You may be interested to know (or probably already do ) that car bodyfiller is a prefered choice as opposed to the plaster for creating the surface to lay up the mould onto.

I seemed to hit a wall when looking for information on this whole process and this was the only book that covered it in 'reasonable' detail. I would still like to know more and see pictures of moulds etc as it the book doesnt really give the detail Id like, I have a few other books that have similar content but not quite as many pictures (I like pictures...) The Tiger Avon book also shows some good pictures of the moulds and the re-enforcements layed into them.

Have you made plugs or taken moulds before ?

My major concern is the creation of the moulds, if they stick to the plug...well I wouldnt even want to consider the consequences. All that hard finishing work would need to be redone

I hope all goes well, Im looking forward to seeing how it goes and have my fingers crossed for you !

James

James, did you check out my site?

Lot of info. there... (good and bad..LOL)

click for my site

Alan B

quote:

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Originally posted by Alan B
James, did you check out my site?

Lot of info. there... (good and bad..LOL)

click for my site

Alan B

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...of course...

Wow, that is one comprehensive site

Why did I buy these books...!? Dont know how I managed to miss your site when trauling google for making bodywork and moulds etc.

This is exactly what I have been looking for, I havent read it all yet, I will be reading it bit by bit. The bodywork bit is very interesting, from quickly reading through it (for the last 1.5 hrs...) I get the impression you used to live in the UK (?), its excellent the way you also provide good UK equivalents of stuff you use, a lot of books (which all seem to be of US origin) never do this, making it a pain to work out what they mean.

You should publish this as a book as its very very comprehensive and is just what potential builders want to read, far more so than any others available (that I have seen) I havent read the other areas of your site yet but I will get round to it at some point !

James

Thank you so much....

Nice to have one's efforts appreciated.
It may make into a book one day...

Yep, I'm from Preston originally.....trying to write for US and UK readers at the same time is challenging....LOL

I have about another 2000 pictures that didn't make the site yet...ask Steve...

Keep watching...but just take it as one guy's idea of what to do, rather than a definitive guide to the right way...
My techniques have money saving VERY much in mind.....

Look alot like a toyota celica or MR2. The talilight in the pic look just like celica taillights so if you like that look then there ya go. Loks great I wish I had the ability to do 3d rendering and all that fun stuff.