Hi guys.

I am considering getting carbon fiber guards and nose cone (perhaps even scuttle) for my Stuart Taylor BEC but I am curious as to the difference in weight between carbon fiber vs GRP. Has anyone got any info on them.

Dan.

No direct weight comparisons, but I'd think there may be more cost/performance effective ways of reducing vehicle weight. i.e. losing more weight for the same money or much more weight for a little more money.

The general rule seems to be to tackle the unsprung weight first with lighter wheels, brakes, hubs etc.

It does look better than fibreglass, and is stronger but in cars such as ours (most of us), its really just a cosmetic benefit IMO.

I think a lot depends on who supplies the parts. i have a pair of
"carbon fibre" cycle wings. they look nice and were very reasonably priced, but are
only marginally lighter than grp ones. Im guessing they are grp with a carbon top layer?
On the other hand i have a caterham carbon nose cone which would
float away if it was not weighted down :-) It cost the original owner around £600

State where you are planning on getting the parts from and I will tell you whether they are lighter than GRP or not...

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Originally posted by DANMAN
Hi guys.

I am considering getting carbon fiber guards and nose cone (perhaps even scuttle) for my Stuart Taylor BEC but I am curious as to the difference in weight between carbon fiber vs GRP. Has anyone got any info on them.

Dan.

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a lot of corbon fibre parts seem to be 1 layer of carbon, backed with fibreglass. looks good, but is basically still fibreglass, like my dashboard, looks the part, but quite heavy.
its really a cosmetic thing as said above.
better ways to save weight, you'll save more by not having a lunch before going out, or go to the toilet...
but i like carbon (proper stuff, not the nasty vinyl stuff) so if you like it and the price is good, then go for it

"It does look better than fibreglass, and is stronger but in cars such as ours (most of us), its really just a cosmetic benefit IMO. "

I agree, i also belive in some applications can look quite tacky, and would not even dream about sticking a piece on my car
but certain applications might work, like a carbon dash, some of them look quite nice, otheres awfull

really nothing but bling and much harder to repair if it does get damaged, unless you then just painted it

carbon is quiet ugly imo nothing worse than a boy racer shopping trolley with a dirty black carbon bonnet, just looks like an unpainted replacement panel, might as well paint white stripes over the car too

Is it worth the cost/weight counterpoint. I like carbon but if I can dumpoo more than the weight saving then it ain't worth diddly; whereas, if the weight saving was worth say, the equiv of a passenger then I say go for it.

I doubt it'll make any difference to the driving experience, but when you get a stone chip or it falls off the car and shatters, then the upset might be disproportionate to the loss over painted plastic.

ATB

Simon

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Originally posted by Mr Whippy
really nothing but bling and much harder to repair if it does get damaged, unless you then just painted it

carbon is quiet ugly imo nothing worse than a boy racer shopping trolley with a dirty black carbon bonnet, just looks like an unpainted replacement panel, might as well paint white stripes over the car too

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Originally posted by roadrunner
Or paint black spots on you Landy.

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There will be a weight saving if you buy the right stuff... but it will cost you! Is the cost commensurate with the weight saving? Yes if you're a serious competitor. No if you're just doing it 'because'.

I would imagine that most folk (myself occasionally included) just buy CF for the 'bling'. A well done piece looks ace, but beware that it will fade and discolour over time... and then need painting.... and re-painted fairly regularly if you want it to look perfect as the weave pattern tends to show through.

Listen to Steve... he knows his CF onions!

Yes, it is a lot lighter, as you will no longer have any money in your wallet, reducing sprung weight considerably.

I believe the general consensus around here is you save locost car weight by eating less. This is easily accomplished once you have bought lots of carbon fibre, and have no money left, with which to buy food. So two birds with one stone, as it were.

That said, I have carbon fibre parts on my car.

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Originally posted by Steve Hignett

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Originally posted by roadrunner
Or paint black spots on you Landy.

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No-one would be that pathetic...... Shirly not???

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

I'm not overly concerned about "the look", weight saving is what I am interested in. Calipers and hubs are about the only other things I can think of to save weight. I have stripped out 3.5kgs of excess wiring, machined down the steering wheel hub and trimmed out some excess fiberglass at another 800g, made new seat brackets that saved 2.2kgs etc. The shocks are already alloy protechs and the wheels are only 4.5kgs a piece so I am pushing it to find other areas to lose weight. The car weighed 470kgs when I got it but I would like to get it under 450kgs so every little bit counts. I am in the process of building a paddle shift kit which is mainly alloy of course which will mean I will remove the standard shifter which is steel so that may save a kg or two but I am running out of ideas short of major stuff like changing the entire diff to a lightweight option.

P.S. I weigh 79kgs so I'm not sure how much lighter I can get, maybe down to 73kgs or so.

How long are your bolts? Have you drilled out the centre of all of them? What tyres do you have? Is there excess material in the chassis? Is it lightweight or normal weight FG?

I'm at work and don't really have time to get into lightweight stuff, but a quick look round your car and I bet you'd find half a dozen areas to sae weight...

Battery?

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Originally posted by DANMAN
Thanks for the feedback guys.

I'm not overly concerned about "the look", weight saving is what I am interested in. Calipers and hubs are about the only other things I can think of to save weight. I have stripped out 3.5kgs of excess wiring, machined down the steering wheel hub and trimmed out some excess fiberglass at another 800g, made new seat brackets that saved 2.2kgs etc. The shocks are already alloy protechs and the wheels are only 4.5kgs a piece so I am pushing it to find other areas to lose weight. The car weighed 470kgs when I got it but I would like to get it under 450kgs so every little bit counts. I am in the process of building a paddle shift kit which is mainly alloy of course which will mean I will remove the standard shifter which is steel so that may save a kg or two but I am running out of ideas short of major stuff like changing the entire diff to a lightweight option.

P.S. I weigh 79kgs so I'm not sure how much lighter I can get, maybe down to 73kgs or so.

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you could replace the heavy engine with a sail, replace the heavy steering system with some rope, replace the heavy brakes with a bit of wood jammed against the tyre, the options are limitless but then you end up with a lightweight pile of crap

keep the car sturdy and safe, not flimsy and dangerous

My vote is for driving with only a speedo. No, we don't need pictures.

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Originally posted by Steve Hignett
How long are your bolts? Have you drilled out the centre of all of them? What tyres do you have? Is there excess material in the chassis? Is it lightweight or normal weight FG?

I'm at work and don't really have time to get into lightweight stuff, but a quick look round your car and I bet you'd find half a dozen areas to sae weight...

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Originally posted by scootz
Battery?

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Originally posted by Simon[/i

Hmm, you saved 800g trimming some f/glass. Oh dear see my comment about having a dump

Steel wheels is always a good one to go for. It's been debated many times. Chuck out the passenger seat. You only need a speedo (no other flash gauges, apart from, warning lights). Bin the roll bar, saves drag too. Do without screen/lights. No bashhat, just a pair of trendy shades. Clothes weigh 4 or 5 lbs, maybe get some Speedo's instead

Fortunately I'm fat so could save 31kgs if I got to my target weight

ATB

Simon

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800g doesn't sound like much but when you find three or four things at 800g all of a sudden your up around the 3kg mark.

I assumed steel wheels would have been heavy, what sort should I be looking for and what do they weigh? I'll be keeping a roll bar (even though it weighs 14kgs) but I may consider having one made from chromoly instead.

The current dash with all the switches, isolation switch, current gauges etc is 3.1 kgs so I can make an interchangable track version at probably half that. Passenger seat can go for track days so that saves another 5.6kgs.

It doesnt have a screen and I'll need a bash hat for track stuff so that's got to stay.

I have seen these cars around the 420kg mark, I'm curious as to how they get that low?

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James - 11/5/12 at 12:35 AM

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Originally posted by RK
Yes, it is a lot lighter, as you will no longer have any money in your wallet, reducing sprung weight considerably.

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Lol!

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Originally posted by DANMAN


I have seen these cars around the 420kg mark, I'm curious as to how they get that low?

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IIRC the Cymtrics chassis mods reduced weight by 10% whilst increasing torsional stiffness lots.
(although if you've had to do the 'Aussie mods' maybe yours already follows these plans!).

I believe the MNR 'lightweight' car used some more exotic materials in some areas- footwell panels etc.

Things like using the smallest diameter bolts you can safely use will save weight (I think it's 10mm for suspension (not 100% sure!) rather than the 12mm or 12.5mm that a lot use.

Use LED rear lights instead of big ones with lenses.

Is yours a bike engine? That's the easiest way!

Or you could just turbo it!

Cheers,
James

[Edited on 11/5/12 by James]

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metro6r4 - 12/5/12 at 09:56 PM

has anyone used these got to be lighter than the stainless for similar money and they look beer new but will they last

Stone Guard Real Carbon Robinhood Westfield Caterham Kitcar *Pair* | eBay

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Simon - 13/5/12 at 12:14 AM

If you're saving weight, don't use any.

Forgot, another popular weighsaver is helium in your tyres. Quick though as it's getting scarce

ATB

Simon

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iank - 13/5/12 at 11:04 AM

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Originally posted by DANMAN
I have seen these cars around the 420kg mark, I'm curious as to how they get that low?

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All the 7's down that low are, afaik, all BEC's.
The only real way to get down there is to design it for minimum weight in the first place (many mentioned above) and think in the following way about EVERY component:
- do I need it?
- can I make it smaller/lighter if I do?

1.2mm ally floor
18swg round tubes in the chassis where 16swg aren't required (and a lot of chassis are made from 2mm because it's easier to get and to weld)
racing battery
small ally fuel tank
13" magnesium split rim wheels and lightweight tyres
minimum comforts/instruments
foam and bin-bag seat (only driver seat/harness fitted)
no lights (if it's a track only car) LED as far as possible if not.
minimal loom
no (or minimal) bit's of sierra (a car designed to be 2+tonnes fully loaded and all components over engineered to be on the safe side)
alloy 1.9inch spring shocks
alloy hubs (and uprights if you're feeling brave)
2pot alloy brakes (unvented, mimimum sized discs)
all bolts cut down to exactly 1.5 threads exposed after the nut
non-critical bolts drilled out
smallest bolt diameter you can get away with in all applications without a required size
Lightweight panels (either thin 'racing' grp or something more exotic)

But to be honest there is a LOT of weights quoted are underestimates, often because the owners don't know and "guess", or use the SVA/IVA front and rear weights and add them together (this gets a lower than actual figure due to the way they are measured one axle at a time). Much like bhp in that regard.

On the often quoted 'have a dump', you can still go that route with a light car and get double benefit

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